Ep65 Addiction Treatment Leading to a place of health

Ep65 Addiction Treatment Leading to a place of health

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

Hi. Welcome to Addiction Recovery Place Podcast, the podcast championing addiction treatment professionals around the world. I'm your host Chris Langley, and I'm very pleased to introduce today's guest, Dr. Caitlin Hegwood, who is the Chief Clinical Officer at True North Recovery in the state of Alaska. Caitlin is a licensed professional counselor and supervisor.

A level two certified alcohol and drug counselor and a certified clinical trauma specialist. She has also served a ma many capable. during her career as an educator, certified recovery coach and counsel in the field of human services for over a decade, and blends out addiction treatment and leadership knowledge to create social change through her work as a Clinical Chief Officer at True North Recovery, which, so much more, which we'll be discussing today on today's podcast. Welcome to Addiction Recovery Place podcast. Caitlin, it's so great to have you with us

It

is so great to be here. Chris, thanks for this opportunity.

No, we really appreciate your time and thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate this. just gonna get started with the first question. Caitlin , can you tell us about yourself and your journey and how you became the Chief Clinical Officer at True North Recovery?

Yes. the can, the canned response is that I'm a person in long-term recovery for over 10 years. But what really happened is a little bit more interesting. actually what happened is about, I guess it's been about 13 years now, I had ended up in the hospital like five times over a summer, and I had like chronic bleeding ulcers, insomnia, anxiety.

And the whiskey and the Copenhagen long cut really weren't helping. And I remember leaving the hospital and the nurse who had been working with me, I. She asked if she told me really, that wasn't normal, that this, that my body was breaking down and it was fighting back, and that I needed to change something.

And she asked if I had ever done meditation and I said, no, I've never meditated. She was like, you should look into it. And it was really a wake up call for me. I was 23 years old. I was in my senior year of my bachelor's degree and I was really struggling. And I went to the library that day, left the hospital, went to the library, got a few books on meditation, and went home and started reading them.

And for. Maybe the next year I, would sit for seven minutes, 10 minutes and breathe. And I was sure I was not doing this right. And, I reached out to a meditation teacher. Her name is Mary Ann Chubb, and she taught me how to meditate. I, I would go for 45 minutes at a time to this group meditation and be there with them and learn.

And I also got involved with yoga and started doing yoga and learning more about my body and about breath and for the first time experiencing like a calm place. I was still using. I was drinking and drugging during this time and still thinking that, maybe there was something a little bit more/ so I started doing therapy and after about two years of all of those things, two full years of therapy and yoga and meditation, I started to feel like I was ready to take the next step. And a few of my friends had gone to treatment and were, getting clean and trying this recovery thing. And, so I started to get sober curious, and that was in, 2013. And then this series of things happened. one thing that happened was that I was a teacher at a high school. I was teaching English as a second language, and I bought drugs off of a student and that really hit me I did that, that it was a huge risk that I was taking by continuing to do drugs and, that was a wake up call that I could lose this career that I worked so hard

for, to work with students and, change their lives in a positive way.

And I, stopped doing drugs and shortly after stopped. Drinking alcohol. And that was in, in 2014. So this summer I'll be celebrating 11 years of sobriety and it, it just evolved from there. I went from teaching and decided, I'd really love, I thought working with kids, and it's true working with kids, you can really change the world.

I do believe that. But what I noticed is that their parents were really needing support and so I thought. Let me, take a little turn and start working in the recovery and behavioral health realm. I became a, recovery coach and then opened up, my own private practice Recovery Coaching. We, I was the only one within a hundred miles of where I lived, and I just opened up shop and started seeing people and coaching them through that early recovery process and.

Really thought I needed to know a little bit more. And so went back to school and got a master's degree and in that time became a, an addiction counselor. And then, got my PhD in human services counseling and became a, licensed professional counselor in Idaho and Alaska and really just have been. It is been really my pleasure just to work with people through their struggles and their hardest times.

And I feel like it's, just an honor every day that somebody shares their story with me and, I'm able to help in any way that I can and now I get to be able to help in any way that I can, counselors and therapists, and can work with their clients. And it's, really.

Really been a, beautiful evolution and I have no idea what the future holds, but, I'm excited about it.

My goodness me, Caitlin. what you've just described is, quite incredible. and to think that this all started, excuse me, by one, one nurse telling you, try meditation and here you are.

And I have no idea what her name is. just thank you to all the nurses and all of the emergency rooms

that are just saying words of encouragement because it really did, it just changed my life.

Yeah, most definitely. Most definitely. And this is what this podcast is all about, is champion all addiction professionals around the world. you've just given a very good example there of how one intervention can lead to you are now a

Yeah,

that's

it's just wild.

that. is wonderful to hear.

So big. congratulations on 13 years as well, Caitlin . That's just, that's some journey that really is, I've spoken to you my 65th podcast and I hear lots of amazing stories and that's, quite incredible and thank you very much for sharing that with us. I really appreciate that. you are now in Alaska, you've been in the Post for the last, six months, seven months maybe. Can you tell us about some of the services that you provide your clients at True North, and how did you find the move?

Yeah, so super. Great question. Interesting. I've had the opportunity to see What addiction counseling and what therapy looks like across the country and really globally, just through the work that I was able to do at NAADAC and before that. And so I've been working, in this behavioral health realm in Idaho and Arizona, Massachusetts, and now Alaska.

And it really happened, I think some, the universe has a way of bringing people together and, I was the president of. NAADAC affiliate in Idaho and, got to meet all the northwest, presidents and all their affiliates. And, got connected with the Alaska affiliate and came up to a conference and really enjoyed the people and, True North really stood out to me their, vision, which I love sharing in it because it's true. And I, this has been my passion forever is, people healed, communities strengthened, and systems transformed. And I really think that recovery and advocacy are always working toward that of healing people, ourselves and others, strengthening our community of health and wellbeing and transforming this entire system that leads us to that place and could, and can and does lead us to a place of health.

And when the opportunity came up for me to make that jump to Alaska. I jumped on board and luckily my husband did too, and we made the 50 hour car ride up and haven't looked back. I.

Okay, you, mentioned as well the ethos of True North and a quote from your website that really struck out to me was, are many pathways to recovery. Let us help you find yours." And I thought that was a really powerful two sentence, quote. I absolutely love that. it just showed the, care that your services provided and I was, don't blame you for moving to Alaska either.

That's just wonderful.

I had

love to share a little bit more with you about that. Yeah, so I think what makes True North Recovery really special and unique is that 98% of the employees that work here have lived experience, either themselves or a loved one has experienced addiction. And so when we come from that really deep foundation of understanding what addiction is and what it can do, and the pathway to healing is possible, when we start with that foundation we really can connect with the clients where they're at on their recovery journey, on their path. And a piece of that is also just the scope of services that we provide at True North. And so I'll describe them a little bit because it's very unique. So we have what's called a living room model, or we call it the launchpad.

And it's open to the public. Anybody can walk in and get crisis services right there. We have peers and we have master's level clinicians that are available to speak with anybody who walks in the door. And we have. Assessors that can do same day assessments to get somebody into treatment. And if we don't have a space, we refer out to others in the community.

Or if we're not a good fit and somebody else is, we really just wanna place people in treatment that they're going to stay in long term that's gonna work for them. I also think that's very unique and just allows for that autonomy that we teach in recovery that you get to choose. What do you want your, what do you want your path to look like?

And so from there, a client could, we have a medical detox. We have a residential, we have a three five residential and, 2, 3, 1 residentials. And then we have PHP. IOP op and then reentry services. So that whole scope. We also have, MAT, or M-A-U-D-M-O-U-D and then, primary care. And so we wanna address that whole person and we're able to do that through this, just amazing people who work for us, with us and then our community partners.

So it's, really neat.

It sounds like a very. Extensive service you provide and the fact someone can just come off so someone doesn't need an appointment, they can just walk in and see someone when they need help in time of crisis.

Yeah. And also we have a mobile crisis team that goes out into the community. We work with the police department, with the state troopers, with EMTs, and if somebody's really struggling with what looks like more of a mental health issue, not a medical issue. They, call us. We're available twenty four seven and we have a team that has a peer and a master's level clinician that go out and meet them, in the community.

and that's, we've just been seeing the severity and acuity of cases diminish and that people are getting that wraparound care as we work with those community partners to address really the root cause of what's happening.

So you work with local law enforcement as well, so they've, they find someone in crisis, then they contact

It's

really amazing.

That's wonderful to hear that. That's, something I've not really come across when doing these podcasts to have such a nice relationship with law enforcement. 'cause obviously there's legal aspect as well of all this as well.

And it's nice that they're able to have a relationship with your, service to do that. thing I noticed you do is you have a recovery residence program also believe in which I've. Learn to be such a vital component of aftercare following treatment. Can you just explain to us how this works and how people can access it after they've gone through the program

Absolutely.

we have 50 beds available in our sober living, our recovery residence, and. As our clients are transitioning out of residential, knowing that they have a space where they can go, that is yes, absolutely free of substances is with other individuals that are free of substances, but also is a program in and of itself.

And so our recovery residents come with peer support. When they're in treatment and are outpatient, they have case managers, they have counselors, and they're working with that team to. Get jobs, get IDs, get connected with healthcare, all of the, basic things that we need in life to form a foundation and then jump from that.

And so our housing program is. Six to 12 months. There's, no maximum stay, but we are helping people, get out on their own. And, we do that in many ways. But a big part of that is working with that peer support specialist and, finding out what recovery, like living recovery looks like and.

I would say that is a part of people's success in the program is that they're able to go to treatment, have a safe place during their outpatient experience, and then as they get their own independent life, they're starting to titrate down into our, One hour, two hours, three hours, maybe one group a week in our outpatient before they discharge from us successfully.

So it's really a neat program.

You must have very high success rates given the amount of support as well. That's, that's something

else.

we have an a, another really cool thing about True North is that if somebody isn't successful their first time. It's okay. They can come back. They can come back again and again. It's start because we know that if somebody's first time in treatment, they might not be ready.

And it takes some internal drive and motivation and skills. And whenever they're ready to come back, we allow them to and we give them a fresh start. That's something unique, to True North. And I really think it's that foundation of that lived experience from all of the providers that they see that, okay, this is you today and I know that you will grow and change.

So I look forward to whatever your recovery journey looks like tomorrow, and I'm here to help.

Yeah. that's, it's, it is such a nice message, to know that somebody is always gonna be welcome back and there's gonna be no stigma, no it, no judging or anything like that. That's a really powerful message for any client to hear. That's for sure of all the many services that you provide at True North Recovery. Caitlin, one that really stuck out to me is the Fairbanks Reentry Services. because after doing 64 of these podcasts, I've yet to come across this kind of service of people who are involved in the criminal justice system. can you just tell us about this and who you work with in the community?

Yeah, absolutely. I am. I have been for a long time, a, an advocate for prison reform and increasing access to treatment, and I feel like I've been on the periphery of that. never working directly in the prison systems, but working with, individuals that are justice involved. Hmm.

this program really speaks.

To me and is a huge part of TNR. They're serving those people that are really in need and in kind of a power dynamic and, wanting to change their life, but maybe not knowing how or having the resources and after somebody has been incarcerated, there is an additional stigma. Not only are we working with the stigma of addiction, but then somebody who's been in prison or in jail or doesn't, comes out and doesn't have those just foundational housing and Insurance and, transportation and, a little fact about Alaska. I have been involved with the Prison Policy Initiative and if you don't know what that is, check out their website and I can send you a link and you can include it in the

notes. But the Prison Policy Initiative, states that there are 5,400 people behind bars in Alaska.

And that Alaska has an incarceration rate of 744 per a hundred thousand people, meaning that it locks up a higher percentage of its people than any independent democratic country on Earth is wild. So this program of helping people get out of jail, get out of prison, and come back to their home communities is very meaningful, and the people that are involved in it are just so appreciative.

And so this is a six months program. It provides that wraparound case management, service coordination, information, and referral sources. Resource navigation. It includes that transitional and sober living. So of those 50 beds, some are in Fairbanks and some are in Wasilla, so that they get that housing component that includes that peer support.

They have access to counseling and case management, and they have employment supports, transportation supports. supports to work with their parole and probation officers and then that goal and transition planning, so that aftercare, what are you gonna do when you leave this program? And from day one, they're working on discharge.

And I think that's really neat that they can grab the skills and solidify them, create positive relationships while they're in group therapy, while they're working with their counselor, case manager with their peer identify, that there is AA and na and. Going to the gym and what a full life can look like, barbecues and, that they are reintegrating back into the community.

it's really cool to see, and this is a grant that, that we've been working from. And, I think it's just been a really positive experience for the community and definitely, for our programs.

Goodness me, I'm, just trying to get my head around the kind of, different agencies that you work with. you work with probation, you work with the courts, you work with law enforcement. it's about group working, isn't it? I think in the, hear, is such a, program is, quite

It's.

would say Alaska does an amazing job because the resources are limited. We work really well together and, we attend these biweekly DOC meetings and I. That I get to be involved in, once a month or when time permits and just that our staff are working so closely to identify if there are barriers and how to reduce them and how to, everybody really wants to help this, the Alaskans that are involved with the system.

And I think that's unique. I think it's unique because Alaska is so small and they see it as such a need. I think it's because addiction rates in Alaska are so high. That, everybody is touched by addiction. You cannot go to the grocery store or drive down the street without seeing somebody that's struggling with addiction.

And because of that, people really wanna help. And that's, it's amazing to live here and to how the communities really come together and support, support the treatment.

It sounds wonderful, and it's lovely to hear that the community are involved and they're supporting this as well. you mentioned about Alaska having very high incarceration rates, Caitlin, with the country now, it seems the world being so badly affected by the opioid crisis. How is Alaska coping with this and what's been done to help curb this, crisis that's going on?

Yeah. we are seeing just in the last six months an increase of fentanyl and meth. Co-occurring. We're seeing heroin in fentanyl co-occurring. And it's, it is serious and, I think a lot. So we work as one of the, part, one of the many partnering organizations with Alaska Department of Health, for the Project Hope.

And it provides Narcan overdose kits to anybody who. Is either using or maybe, a friend or a family member of somebody who's using opiates. And so anybody who comes into one of our programs, one of our centers, they can pick one of those up. And we also do trainings. Just last week we did a training with our staff to just re-remember retrain and get familiar with Narcan and the dosage and what fentanyl.

Will require maybe up to four doses of Narcan. And then we looked at the OV, which is a newer one that, maybe, possibly you use less of, and that, has a higher efficiency effectiveness

with Fentanyl. And just that ongoing training and then that partnership with the state of Alaska. But we are noticing that there are an in, there's an increase of.

Fentanyl in our opioids. It is an opioid, but being co-occurring with those two together and then fentanyl and meth and so I, it is just, it's dangerous right now for anybody to be using. And so if somebody is using an opiate or methamphetamine or any drug that is on the street that they're using fentanyl strips that they're knowing to understand what's in.

The drugs that they're using, and then also making sure that they have Narcan available, or that their friends have Narcan so that they can save themselves or a friend if that were to occur. And I think that partnership has been really strong, and I've been in other states that they've reduced narcan's availability and it's a disservice to everybody because then we lose, people that.

Maybe have had recovery for 10 years and then used once, and if they would've had access to Narcan that they would've survived, but they didn't. And having that available is, really important. And Alaska's doing a great job with that. I,

Yeah, it's lovely to hear that your state isn't running away from the problem and they're at least trying to address what's going on.

I.

I've, spoken to quite a few, I've spoken to every state in the country now. Okay. And then few pockets around that to still ignoring it or just pulling funding or just, not allowing it at all.

I think one state, in fact called it paraphernalia,

Yeah,

which. It blew my mind when I heard that,

I know I.

it's really good to hear that your state is trying to work with it head on. just gonna move on now, Caitlin , 'cause met through NAADAC and you've been a long time member of Nadac, which is the country's bigger, biggest organization for addiction professionals. you tell us about your experience of working with NAADAC and what it makes and what it is that makes it such a greater organization to be involved with?

Absolutely. I, think like many, I was in my master's degree and one of my professors said, you need to join NAADAC.

And I joined as a student and, I immediately started taking all of their CEs. There's so much learning and I, at that time, I was just. And still am just soaking everything up just to be the best that I can be for the people that I'm working with.

And so just taking all the webinars and then out of the blue, maybe six or nine months after I joined NAADAC, there was a, an email to all Idahoans that were involved with NAADAC they were needing a legislative rep. For the Idaho Association of Addiction Professionals, which is the, their affiliate in Idaho.

And I've never, I had never done anything legislative or advocacy, none of that. But I was ready to jump in and so I emailed back and said I was interested in joining and I'm. I might not have the background for the advocacy or, the legislation change and all of that, but, I'm very naturally opinionated and, good at rallying people.

And I just jumped in and. Ended up learning a lot. I've had a lot of great mentors that have helped me and from the legislative rep, I became the president-elect, the president, and now past president of IAAP and The biggest thing that I appreciate about NAADAC is that ability to connect with other professionals and, have a seat at tables that I didn't even know existed at the system level, creating change and the opportunity to.

See treatment centers and tour the people who I served on the board with, if I were in their town, say if I was in Boise or Twin Falls, I could go and look at what they were doing and get some ideas on how to better serve people who are in addiction or connect them with a real human being, a warm handoff of I know this person and their treatment center's really good and I feel very comfortable with referring them, referring you to them and those connections.

Are what mean the most to me through all of the work that I've done at NAADAC. And then I had this opportunity to join NAADAC National, that I got to serve and connect with all 50 states, all the affiliates in the 50 states, and then, internationally with six countries and two territories. And, just. Chris, I know what you mean.

You've gotten this huge scope of understanding of what addiction

looks like nationally and really internationally from your view. And I'm sure that maybe you feel similarly, but it's been a pleasure to get to know these people that are really. Engaged in their communities, supportive of people getting good treatment and

wanna move that forward in advocacy and education in their homecommunities.

It's. Naa is very special. And, I, through that I've also recently shifted from, because I am the past president, I'm not as involved in the Idaho affiliate. I live in Alaska now. And so I've been getting involved with NAADAC and NBCC, have this, the minority fellowship. Program for addiction counselors.

And so I'm currently in my second round of mentoring a master's level student that's going through that program and has received that scholarship, which is $15,000 toward their tuition to professional conferences. And then they get a mentor and just Allowing, myself to give back to

other upcoming addiction professionals and grow the professional in that, way is really meaningful to me.

And

Yeah.

been a neat evolution. I.

I can tell. and you certainly do rally people. I can vouch for that. so I take it, you'd recommend to anyone who's entering or considering entering the addiction field to join NAADAC Caitlin. And can you tell us about the benefits that a new member will have as soon as they join? What would they,

Absolutely. So NAADAC membership, just join. You'll

get all the webinars you can take. Actually, you can take NAADAC webinars without having a membership, so go try them. If you're not a member already, go watch a few webinars and if you want the CES, you can become a member or pay a nominal fee. Also, they have.

partnered with I think two universities, to get discounts. So if you are thinking about going back to school or you're currently in school, go and go to NEX website and see what those new member benefits are. I think some programs are offering 10 to $15,000 off of tuition for NAADAC members, is huge.

So go check that out. the other piece that I appreciate a lot is being involved. I wanna be at the table and they have a ton of committees. I was on the military and Veteran Affairs Committee. I was, on the Clinical supervision committee. they have, they really do have so much. Great work happening in those committees.

And they meet usually monthly or quarterly. And so if you're somebody who wants to get involved but maybe don't know how, and you're interested in that national or maybe international level, jump onto their website, get involved in a committee, or get involved with your state affiliate and. I would just say jump in.

It's, what's been most powerful. I think that connection, and it's really reduced my burnout because I feel like I, I know other people that are doing these same things and we're having similar challenges, but it's solution focused instead of. Just rolling around with the issues, and I love that solution focused mindset, like how do we change this for the better?

If that's through education, if that's through advocacy, if that's just through being together and knowing that we're moving forward and doing good work in our daily lives, then yeah. I would just say if you, if that interests you, jump in.

Yeah. Yeah, most definitely. it's a, it's an extraordinary, organization. It's been a real privilege for me to meet so many members and obviously such as your good self, been very welcoming as well, especially for a British guy. I've, joining. really

We need a,

we need an England NAADAC. I don't know what that would be, but

That could.

could.

that can happen. That can happen. That's for sure. Yeah. lots of people over there I can connect you with. That can happen. Maybe we can start

something Caitlin, who knows. But, think you're busy enough for the time being anyway, so Yeah, Exactly. Exactly.

couple of questions, Caitlin. I always ask these last couple of questions because I, find 'em so fascinating. But you touched on this earlier around stigma. The stigma of addiction and mental health is always at the forefront, I believe, of people's minds when it comes to initially wanting to access treatments. can you tell us why you think that this is still the case in this day and age, why stigma has such a barrier to, someone walking through those doors and saying, please help.

Yeah. Yeah. And stigma is absolutely still here. It's still the case, but I do think we're trending, to addressing it differently in the public eye. But there's absolutely that historical misconception that addiction is a moral failing and a personal weakness. We have that public lack of understanding of addiction, science, and, the systematic discrimination of people who have experienced addiction and the losses, and, that we also have that internalized stigma and that judgment of what we're doing on the daily.

And so we don't wanna be labeled. There's, it's very complex. And so stigma comes from. The inside and the outside. It's internal and it's external, but I think having conversations just like these, reduce that stigma for me to come on and say that I'm a person in long-term recovery, that I've used substances since the age of 11, and that I can make a change, and you can too,

just gives voice that things happen in our lives. And that's okay. We're

human and that's what's supposed to happen and we're supposed to

grow and that it's not a weakness. It's really a strength.

And so I think as we move forward, and obviously there are people out there that are pushing the boundaries of addiction science and sharing that in ways just like you are, that people can understand through conversations, through storytelling, through research.

We're doing a much better job at telling a different story and a whole story of what addiction is, and then getting people access to treatment is a whole other story that we need to continue to build the infrastructure, that people have access, equal access to treatment, and we're not using jails as residential treatment and that if somebody needs treatment, that they're able to get it here in Alaska, it's very true that if, somebody's needing treatment.

Most likely they're able to because of the government and the state is so willing to invest in a, in somebody to be in recovery. But that's not true everywhere. And as we address the stigma, I hope to see that access to treatment grow as we change what it means to be somebody who uses substances and somebody who is in recovery.

it is good to know that say 20 or 30 years ago, these conversations might not have even occurred. Obviously the internet has changed that significantly, but it's nice to know that conversations can be accepted. and I, find stigma quite a barrier and I, I've always found it particularly difficult, to, to deal with, especially when I've worked with past clients as well, who, whose family members are. addictions or, it's, such a problem, but it is nice to know that we're moving on with the conversation.

you,

for

it reminds me my, so my first client. Recovery coaching ended up becoming a recovery coach and a yoga teacher. And one day in a session she looked at me and she said, I just wanna recover out loud, and I was just

love that

and I'll

never forget that. And she went and did it. And, we just need more people recovering out loud and it's happening.

Yep. It certainly is. It really is. one of the last questions I like to ask, Caitlin , because I get some really interesting and varied answers to this, but can you tell me what your opinion of harm reduction is and how it can play a pivotal role in recovery?

Absolutely. it's time. This question is timely. I just listened to this great podcast, with Dr. Kristin Dempsey, and, the podcast is called Light Up the Couch. It's about counseling and about, just great, resources for counselors and therapists. but she uses the definition from the national.

Harm reduction center based in New York and that there are really two definitions of harm reduction. One with the small H and small R, which is a set of practical strategies and ideas that are really intended to help reduce the negative consequences and associated with drug use and substance use, and that's helping people use more safely.

And then there's harm reduction with the capital R and capital H backwards, capital H and capital R, which is really a social justice movement, and it's really about the belief in and respect for the rights I. Of people to use drugs and many people that are practicing harm reduction as a practice also participate in some aspects of that social justice movement.

And, she goes on to say that harm reduction is about embracing any and all recovery pathways and meeting the person where they're at in that moment without expectation, without the shoulds and without the judgment. And because of that, it asks a lot out of us as the professional. We may know what drugs do that are harmful, that they can destroy relationships and jobs and, diminish our self-esteem.

And so we may want our clients or the people that we're working with to seek abstinence, sobriety, recovery in a way that we think is right. What harm reduction does is it asks us to be flexible and it asks us to say, what are you hoping for? What are you working toward? If that's to stay alive, let's get you some Narcan.

Let's get your, family members trained. Let's get your friends trained and how to use this and

Yep.

let's start testing whatever you're using, making sure that it's not, it doesn't have fentanyl in it. Those are the kinds of questions that we, that harm reduction is asking of us. How can we help our clients meet their goals and their needs, knowing that their goals and their needs are going to change?

And in therapy we know that the relationship is what changes people. And so in that interaction, we're creating a positive bond with another human. And that may lead. To them seeking abstinence-based recovery, we don't know, but if we start with that, they're less likely to engage. And so harm reduction is really letting the client decide their path and then we get to be along for the ride.

To

help them navigate what their path looks like in the safest way possible. And so

I'm a huge proponent of harm reduction, clean syringes, fentanyl strips. just recently heard of a program in Massachusetts where. You can call somebody, tell them where you're at and that you're using alone. And then, if you don't respond to the person on the other line that they know where you are and they can call EMTs if are, not responsive. And I think that's, programs like that are one, keeping people alive and then change. People are able to change their lives when they have that kind of experience.

yeah, person centered as well. I'm a big supporter of harm reduction. I always have been. I always will be. my own personal experience of working the sector has been number. I would always work with a client where they're at.

Yes.

think

Exactly.

Exactly. And that's what harm reduction calls us to do. Exactly.

Absolutely. Yep. Perfect. Caitlin, last question. you have a message for anyone who's listened to this podcast who is going through an addiction?

Yes. so I love this, strategy that the Dalai Lama uses and he shared, he's, he said when he's feeling sick or struggling or feeling down, he thinks about all of the people that have come before him and have struggled in the same way. And just by knowing that he's not alone, that those other people got through it and that they were able to overcome, and that gives him that connection and that And the strength to continue and to move forward and to seek wellness and wellbeing.

And so if you're struggling right now, please know that you are not alone. There are many people currently and in the past that have struggled with this same thing and they want a better life, a different life that is free from addiction. And there are so many ways to move forward. There are so many paths, and if you have one person that is healthy in your life, it could be, a peer, it could be a friend, a pastor, a counselor, someone at AA or na.

One person, reach out to them and get connected and whatever happens through the ups and downs, just continue to show up for yourself and work toward that health and wellbeing and know that you're not alone.

Wow. What a perfect way to end this podcast, Caitlin . Thank you so much for that. last question, very quickly, can you tell our listeners how to best to contact you and to find your service online?

Absolutely. So anybody can go to TNR ak.org, so True North Recovery, tnrak.org. You can also find me on LinkedIn. And, I do have a small private practice. It's called Elevate Wellness, LLC, and we can put that in the show notes also. Yep, But, please contact me. I'm really available on LinkedIn. That's. My main social media, so feel free to log in and friend me and, if you have questions, please let me know.

You can message me and I'll get back to you. So thank you so much, Chris, for this opportunity to speak to your audience about these really neat programs and important topics.

thank you Caitlin , and it's been a real privilege and honor to have you on our podcast today. And, thank you for sharing your journey. That was, quite extraordinary. And, congratulations on everything you've achieved The last 13 years must just

It's been a whirlwind, but happy to

be here.

and it's such a, such an amazing example of what people can

Yeah,

so congratulations and thank you so much

thank

you.