Ep58 Addiction Treatment Many ways to get help

Ep58 Addiction Treatment Many ways to get help

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

Chris Langley: Hi. Welcome to Addiction Recovery Place Podcast, the podcast championing addiction treatment professionals around the world. I'm your host Chris Langley, and I'm very pleased to introduce today's guest Lena Sheffield. Lena is a Licensed Mental Health Counselor, a Certified Addiction Professional, and a Master Addictions Counselor based in Florida. Lena is also the President of the Florida Association of Addiction Professionals, the Florida Affiliative NAADAC. Welcome to Addiction Recovery Place podcast, Lena, it's so good to have you with us today.

Lena Sheffield: Thank you for inviting me.

Chris Langley: No, very excited to talk to you about the extensive work that you're doing in your state. So Lena, can you tell us about yourself and some of your career journey so far, please?

Lena Sheffield: I will. So I am down in Miami, Florida. I started a long time ago in, inpatient treatment back in, the days when there was longer lengths of stay and there were a lot more, interdisciplinary, right? We had the luxury of having a lot of intense family therapy and art and music therapy and a lot of, comprehensive treatment.

and it was a great time because the mentors that I worked with were very aware that. addiction and mental health and family dynamics and attachment and all that was intermingled sometimes, some people it was more addiction bringing them into disruption or sometimes disruption in their life.

Substances was a good way to cope, but this was at 28 day programs were just strict. Just stop using 12 step, no family therapy, no medications, so it was nice that now I see so much more about dual diagnosis and co occurring that, the people are starting to realize that you can't, they're not isolated.

I'm inpatient, I did a lot of clinical, I did, then I became administrator where I got to learn. At first, I didn't like it, but I learned to appreciate the business side of this field because, again, we love helping people, but, it is a business, then I had to learn about, joint commission and, insurance contracting and budgets and all that, and I came to really appreciate policies and procedures.

so I don't know, I think it's like my 12 years of Catholic school. I'm good with rules. but I, I valued them, not unnecessary, but the ones that were important. so that was important. Things really changed, with managed care. I then went to marketing and education where I got to travel around the country and I loved it because I got to meet people in.

I did a lot of the Southern states and a lot of towns that were so talented that we're doing such amazing work. So it was really humbling for me to go into a small town in America. And they're doing like, that's really cool, and how skilled so many of the professionals are that, we don't see them in the spotlight, there are a lot of people doing great work out there.

so I was doing more eating disorder training. So in the eating disorder group, I got to train them about and substances. And then in the substance world, I had to teach them about eating disorders. Cause again, back then, now we're seeing the overlap, but back then it was very separate. so just, increasing that awareness so that they don't miss it.

but at the same time I was doing in home therapy and I was starting to get pretty burned out. I, doing in home therapy. I still think clinically it's the best way to go. Cause you get to see so much stuff that you would never see, an office. so I thought it was time. Let me go ahead and try private practice.

We got a little leery up because I, used to teach, then COVID hit and private practice was perfect. because I was able to do telehealth and I also started teaching online. so I've been able to do that. And the way I make my connections is I make sure I do lots of networking. I know those marketing reps, how hard they work.

So if they call, yes, I will meet with you. Cause I know it's all, we got to work together. to do this. yeah. and part of the reason, cause when I do teach, one of the reasons that I like people to know, there's so many ways you could work in this field. And it's not just in a treatment center, one to one with a person, right?

There's so many ways that you can get involved in this field in so many populations. And there's so many more that, I'm still amazed at that people are doing really great work at.

Chris Langley: yeah, most, most definitely. so what, do you most enjoy about your work and career, Lena? What is it that gets you up in the morning to, drive you?

Lena Sheffield: I'm curious, curiosity, I love, I was talking to somebody today, I love hearing people's story. rather, we all make assumptions based on how they present or what they look like or, they check on their intake paper. But I want to know that story? How did this maybe maladaptive behavior, how did that come to be?

was it really helpful at the beginning and now it's gotten out of control? Or is that the only option they had? so just getting to know the, and the whole dynamic of the person, And helping them be aware of that, to understand yeah, this is really awful behavior you're engaging in right now, but it makes sense given, what you've been through or, what is being told to you as an option right now.

so I'm trying to. Not judge. I judge, even though, inside I might. But, understand where they're coming from and, was it a TikTok post that they learned about this particular treatment and okay, check it out together and let's be wise consumers.

Chris Langley: what aspects do you find frustrating about work in this sector? Because obviously, there's things like insurance, external issues beyond your control. you also just mentioned TikTok,

there's a lot of these TikTok so called influencers who, just have massive followings, but have quite a lot of, they literally have a lot of influence, and it's concerning for me hearing about

mentioned in this as well,

that's, can you tell us a little bit about that, please,

Lena?

Lena Sheffield: so definitely funding is always an issue, right? And I think part of it is we're just not a strong lobbying industry, right? We don't have the money. We don't have the muscle. people in our field just want to help, right? They don't want to go to Washington and, donate money to try to get, Laws changed, so it's easy to get frustrated, but we still have to keep trying. so insurance, people don't like insurance, but at the same time people are paying a lot of premiums, you don't want to be paying, like I pay lots of premiums for my insurance and then to find out that I got to go out of network, that's a lot. so I, that can be frustrating because I'm in network with a few but not a lot of them because reimbursement.

isn't great with some of these companies. and if they are, then the amount of work that it takes to compliant could also be, you need them to hire someone to do all that. and I understand why because there, there is abuse. So we know that there is abuse of the, even insurance companies.

So there's gotta be some rules and regulations, but it makes it a little bit harder. And not everybody could afford self pay. But I think that's important, another reason to have all that networking so that I know Wait a minute, you've got this particular thing? Wait, I've got a group that I can go and ask and find out, get some resources for You I may not be able to, but I can find somebody else. so that's definitely a big challenge. I think telehealth has really helped with access to care. I know Miami when COVID hit is when I realized. People going to therapy was a three hour process because of traffic. So now if they're, if they've got kids at home where they can't, leave work early or something, that we could get on screen and do it. so that's a little bit better. so social media, good and bad, right? I'm, probably addicted, like many of it, hijack my reward system. I think the good thing that's happened is it's increased some awareness. So a lot of times, especially the adolescents, the parents are like, I don't know, my kid thinks they need a therapist.

and then it's TikTok? yes, I think I have, xyz, which is fine because it gives us an opportunity to educate them. You know what? That's really not what bipolar is, or that's really not, trauma. That's really not bullying. You just didn't get invited, but it gives us an opportunity to, Examine what they're interpreting and educate or also learn you know what, there's other ways of doing things more, right?

We certainly don't have the answer. We have not figured it out yet. So let's be a little open to what Some influencers are putting out there. I've gotten great resources that I found people that I follow online, and there are people that do this for a living and they're very creative.

I'm better at sharing than creating. the whole social media reward thing. Hijacking is the new problem now, right? Because of the attention span is so low and we're so used to that immediate, gratification, which ties into then just wanting to take a drug, right? Just wanting that immediate release because that's what they're used to.

the one thing that I don't like, particularly on social media, is that there's really this message of, if people aren't, you don't feel good around these people, just Kick them out of your life, right? Or you should always be a hundred percent happy or you should be living your passion. Cause that's not real, right?

Part of therapy and counseling is being able to increase your tolerance set boundaries. But it doesn't mean just because you don't like these people that you're never going to talk to them again. so I think sometimes there's extreme messages on social media that aren't real and then people feel like failures.

At the same

Chris Langley: Yeah,

That's a really interesting take on that. I really enjoyed listening to that, Lena, because I've getting different views on influences and you see the kind of dangerous side of it. But obviously, you've just spoken about the positive side of it's,

Lena Sheffield: Yeah,

Chris Langley: yeah, most definitely, when you decided to go into your own private practice, what was it that made you decide to do, to take the leap to do this?

Lena Sheffield: that was a hard one. Cause it, again, I'm really comfortable working with teams and organizations. but I think it was later in my career and I thought I haven't really done it yet. Why not try it? Let me try it. worst case, I'll go back to a treatment program or something. but I wanted to, I wanted to see, I think also just to see what people actually pay me to come, work with me.

Like it wasn't the name of the company. It was actually me. that felt pretty rewarding. and the flexibility. So I think that's the best. For me, the best part that I could like today, I don't need to see a client because I'm going to do this, or, I have another doctor's appointment or I want to go to a yoga class.

there's flexibility and that's very appealing to be able to do that. But the risk is some of the financial stuff and some of the business side that, we don't learn that in school. I certainly didn't. don't learn how to, that counseling is a business, right? It's not just a feel good thing with people, but we have to pay taxes and we have to, how to keep our licenses up and all that stuff.

so I did, I was fortunate that I had people that I could, join a group at first and sublet an office space from, that I didn't have to jump in a hundred percent, I was able to just do it, gradually. And I like it. I like it. yeah.

Chris Langley: congratulations on taking the leap. obviously you've, you're doing very, well at the moment, which is lovely to hear. when we first met, Lena, you, when we first did our pre postcard call, you, said that you've, you're teaching for the Sober College School of Addiction Studies.

Can you tell us about this certification program and how it works? Sounded really interesting.

Lena Sheffield: So they don't, we do not do a certification, right? And I, that does bother me on social media. A lot of people have created their own certifications.

Chris Langley: I

Lena Sheffield: and who knows, anybody could create an organization apparently. No, but the program, and I'm one of the instructors, provides the coursework that you need to get certified within your own state.

to become an addiction counselor. So we're just doing the academic portion that you need. depending on which state, you may need seven, or eight courses. So I'm able to teach those online, and then they have to go through all their state process for certification, it's a NAADAC state or, some states like Florida have their own certification board.

Chris Langley: understand.

Lena Sheffield: Yeah.

Chris Langley: And how long have you been doing that for?

Lena Sheffield: Gosh, I think, about almost 10 years. It's been a while. The students, many of them are in recovery the message of hope is unbelievable because, a lot of our students, a lot of people in our field, have really lost a lot. And they're, they're tenacity, they keep coming back and they want to help other people.

And it's just, amazing. It really is amazing. It's one thing to like, just choose I like this field versus, I almost died, I lost everything and I had a really good experience and now I want to give back I want to do this for other people.

Chris Langley: so you're mentoring of students. That must be incredibly rewarding work. like you've just yeah. That's amazing to hear. Also, you mentioned your career beginning with volunteering way back in high school. Do you think that volunteering has since become less important in society, would you say, or?

Lena Sheffield: I know when my kids were in high school, they all had to do 75 hours of volunteer hours. it was like a mandate, whoever was president at the time, right? Like the message was volunteering is important. And I made my kids really volunteer. But I know a lot of the other kids, their parents just signed off on it, or they went and did something, They host it at somebody's dinner party. they didn't really take it seriously. I've just seen in organizations that I've been a part of that it's harder to get long term commitment from people on a volunteer basis. to be able to just give of their time. Now it's possible, maybe for me it's my networking.

As well, and I feel it's, advocacy work and it's learning about what other people are doing so we can, get ideas and it's stimulating, maybe for other people there, they're getting that somewhere else. I just think there's so many opportunities instead of complaining or I wish, this would happen or that would happen.

There's a committee for that, that you could join. There really is. You can definitely volunteer to be on one of these committees, either at a national, regional, or local level. yeah.

Chris Langley: Most definitely. I'd just like to move on and speak about the work that you're doing for NAADAC, Lino, because you're the president of the Florida Association of Addiction Professionals. how long have you been a member of this organization? You can tell us about the great work that you're doing in Florida.

Lena Sheffield: so I was trying to think of when I joined NAADAC. I know I got my master addiction counseling designation from them. In 1996, I think I was a member even before then, but the Florida group, I was in and out. I wasn't that involved until, probably about a year ago. Bobby Hayes, who was You know, would have done this podcast.

She was the president for about 15 years and she's still on board and she really kept the Florida group together, now we're trying to get again more people to get more involved so we can see what does our state want, because every state's a little bit different and we want to know, do they want, continuing education, which NAADAC is great at, or, do they want more connections?

we've been sending out some surveys just trying to get more involvement and revitalize this is, NAADAC is the organization for addiction professionals. why not use them? Why not get involved and let them know what you need, Because I know they're there to serve us.

What do we need?

Chris Langley: Yeah. so you'd obviously recommend to anyone who's considering starting a career in addiction counselling to, to join NAADAC. can you tell any of our listeners who are considering joining what, are the many benefits of joining are? Because it's, I think it's a, it's an amazing organisation.

Lena Sheffield: Yeah, definitely one is connecting with other people, depending on your

Chris Langley: state

Lena Sheffield: .

And again, some states are really, important. strong and they have their own trainings. I think they speak for us. They're outside of DC and they really are involved in a lot of the legislative work and really speaking for us at, times where, we, forget about it or we don't know how to do it.

the people there are really being advocates for this profession. other thing is they have a huge library of educational Webinars that are free, and I think if you're a member, the continuing education is free. They've got a wealth of webinars there. there's just, there's probably no topic that isn't covered in, all the years of webinars they have.

but I think a lot of us just belong in that identity that you belong to, a very established, been around for a very long time. An established organization that, So far seems to be, really having our back.

Chris Langley: what, future plans do you and the Florida Association of Addiction Professionals have for 2025, Lena? Have you got any big plans?

Lena Sheffield: we are going to try to do our own, internal, little in services, just utilizing some of the resources of the members we do have in Florida, right? Cause we do have a lot of great people, and keep trying to meet. Florida is such a long state that it's hard to meet in person. Right?

Because, it could take 12 hours to go from the top to the bottom. we're trying to do, utilize more of the, meetings. We do meet monthly and trying to get more involvement. And the more I'm learning about the national opportunities, I'm trying to get our members involved at the national level too.

so if I know that they've got this area of interest, I've already said, Oh, there's a committee for that. out of the national office, why let me put you two together. which I, like doing that. I like, bringing resources together. Maybe that was my networking side, but I think it's important to I've, I know somebody who might be able to help you with this, don't know, but I know I, I can put you in touch with somebody, so I think that's going to be an opportunity too, and to work with the other organizations, right?

Because we have, Organizations that are well established for treatment provider, for treatment programs, for sober living programs. And to, we're not in competition. We're all trying to,

Work together to offer a great transition for clients. So let's pull our resources together.

Chris Langley: Yeah, most definitely. if somebody was listening to this podcast who's in Florida and they're considering joining NAADAC in Florida, how would they go about contacting you?

Lena Sheffield: I think if they go to the NAADAC website and

Lena Sheffield: They then. I think if they live in Florida, that's your address,

Lena Sheffield: Yep. They become a Florida member. And I

the website they do have the state chapter, so my There we go.

Florida. .And we do have a small Facebook page that is growing for

Lena Sheffield: So it's F L AA P.

you can always, there. And I try to write a little bit on that. NAADAC also has a great forum where people ask each other a lot of really good questions. so I try to have a little bit of content on the Florida forum too.

Chris Langley: I've seen that. Yeah. Wonderful stuff. Wonderful. Last couple of questions, Lena. I ask all my guests this because stigma of addiction and mental health trauma is still such a massive impact on people accessing

services. Why do you think it is in this day and age that we still have such an issue with stigma?

And do you think it's improving somewhat?

Lena Sheffield: I think, it has improved somewhat. a little good things really came out of the pandemic. one of the things that I got excited. There was much more talk on the, on the media and the news about the importance of connection the data that more people were consuming alcohol, that there were more, emergency room visits, the whole idea that, mental health was really, impacted by the isolation.

So that to me was really important. Like we've known that. but it now like regular people on, whether it was Fox or CNN or MSNBC, they were all saying it, it wasn't polarizing. But we still have the sigma, the words, like you're a drug addict or you're an alcoholic or, you're a cokehead, instead of, you are struggling and you have a problem with this.

I think we still have not educated the healthcare community enough. So a lot of their knowledge, I think, unfortunately hurts us. clients will go to get medication, legitimate mental health situation. And, I say, did you ask them about, can you drink, can you do all that other stuff?

Oh, they said, yeah, that's fine. Moderation. Did you tell them moderation is 12 drinks for you? No. Okay. we can help with that by getting release forms signed so we can collaborate and educate the doctors, That may be a good drug for, medication for somebody, but you need to know what else is going on with this client.

Maybe not such a good idea, right? Not to overstep our bounds, but, help educate, the healthcare community as well. I think that's really important. I think we're still weak on that. And the jokes, right? it's funny to see People that are drunk or wasted, right? We make fun of it on TV and the movies, and it's glamorized.

It's still the shows, the old mad men, but it's still on shows where people are always, have a drink in their hand. it's just so normalized.

Chris Langley: Yeah.

Lena Sheffield: makes it really hard to say, My dad had a drink every night before he went to bed. What's the problem? okay, maybe it was, or maybe it wasn't, but you're also adding dah.

you're not able to get up in the morning, but we want to make assumptions and we don't want to acknowledge it because then we're flawed.

Chris Langley: Do you also think that politics can have such an effect on addiction in the recovery community? Because it seems to be quite a big issue,

Lena Sheffield: Yeah. yes, because politics influences a lot of healthcare coverage. It influences laws. It influences, how we perceive, jail time versus rehab. our, officials, elected officials, are part of whether or not beds get approved, or not treatment centers can be opened or closed, they can influence what insurance will pay and not pay.

So it goes back to, a little bit of that lobbying or getting involved in that area because if they don't hear from us, they're going to think everything's fine. I hear it all the time. oh, we designated this much money for this and that, and most of us are sitting in the room.

It's like, where's that money? We haven't seen it. we need to speak up. We need to let people know, people in, in government or people, with those kind of, power know that this is what it actually looks like at this level. And, whether or not have a certain amount of benefits that really is inadequate.

and educating again about, just because one treatment center costs this much money and the other one costs five times as much. may not be the same thing, and it's not that one is better than the other, but there is a difference. some people are like, why should I do that when I can get this?

or this is too much money. I can't go to rehab. It's wait, there's some other programs too, and there's outpatient. And we know that there's also more outpatient, medication options. there's also more legalizing of, Products and substances to treat that a little unknown, right?

Anybody can come up with research to back up. Their business, but it's still, questionable. we can't

Chris Langley: Sure.

Lena Sheffield: never ever because we don't know, and it might be helpful for some people, we're, a media driven,

Chris Langley: much so.

Lena Sheffield: people get upset about, Politics, and about, a lot of the rules and, and it's, I've been around long enough to know this is not the first time we've been upset with government, right?

it happens periodically and we all, we're in a panic, but if you're that distressed and then now with social media, we might make it even more divisive and, instigate more and get people more agitated. and then, people are starting to feel hopeless and helpless about things, where maybe, it doesn't have to be that much, they could use your voice and be upset about things, but it doesn't mean that they're going to, they should go get wasted because they can't stand what's happening.

Chris Langley: get that. Absolutely.

Lena, I ask all my guess this question 'cause I get some very interesting and varied answers. but can you tell me your opinion of harm reduction and how it can play such a, role in recovery?

Lena Sheffield: so I'll speak more personally from my own experience and my, things that I've learned and, clients that I've had. I think there's a place for it. I think the, and it's a very, it's a vague term because some people call harm reduction as, we're going to get off these drugs, but we're still going to let you, cannabis and vaping and drinking, right?

And is that better for some people? Yeah. That may be a good, start. That may be a good compromise, for others harm reduction might mean that they're going to get, medication, medication assisted therapy. a lot of motivational interviewing is about staying with the client and not pressuring and not pushing.

so in a way that's harm reduction too, like being able to tolerate that. they're doing something that is so dangerous, and we predicted this gonna spiral badly, right? But we're like, no, are you know, are you willing to cut back to only the weekends, knowing it might, that's not gonna work, but it might, right?

And the other thing we don't know, people's addiction physiology, right? Because there really are people out there that can do moderation. And there are people out there that choose not to do it. And there's some people that really need 100 percent abstinence. So when, what we might offer for one client might be just devastating for somebody else.

So to me, harm reduction is also meeting the client, knowing what the client can and cannot tolerate. and what are they willing to do? not that we're like, okay, that's fine. If you just want to get high, we can still keep educating them about it. clients that are sober from all of those drugs, but they're still vaping it.

I'm vaping when you're ready, right? Cause that's not good for you. so harm reduction I think has its place, but we have to do it very individualized and we have to know what the risks are for that client. Yeah. And

Lena Sheffield: Are they doing? Where are they putting themselves in danger? And do we have a backup plans, and do we, I give out a lot of Narcan in my office, just in case.

Just take that with you, just in case. yeah, but I know even the medication stuff, a lot of the old, the diehard 12 step people, I know that's fake, got to go through it, but there are some people that, say in AA, unconstitutionally incapable of total sobriety on their own, right?

So if there is some medication that might help with low side effects, let's try it. Why not? not? as long as they're still doing their own work.

Chris Langley: Thank you for that, Lena. last question. do you have a message for anyone who's listening to this podcast, who's going through an addiction?

Lena Sheffield: Yes. Yeah. there are many ways to get help. If you're not ready to acknowledge that you need maybe to go to a residential or detox, we have, the stages of change, right? It's still something that we teach. yeah, I don't really think I have it. I don't really think I can handle it.

pre contemplative, probably people are telling you a lot of things, you're getting some consequences, but we all think we're omnipotent, we can handle it, we can take care of it, but that may be the time to, let me check with somebody, and you can go and see somebody and say, I'm not ready to quit, but I do want to explore, why am I using so much?

not to be afraid to reach out just in case and explore in the end, you should have autonomy to do what you want to do. Now, not everybody, depend on how severe things are. the other thing, if people say like they have no money, but they want to check it out, go to some 12 step meetings. If you don't like the whole concept, there are many other ways to do it.

There's smart recovery. She recovers, a recovery dorm, a celebrate recovery, right? There are a lot of different ways that you can, find mutual aid communities, where you might. resonate with the people you might feel like, okay, they get me. they're not here to shame me. And even if you go to a meeting and you just don't like the group right there, try another one.

and if you're not willing to go in person, go online. You can go on a AA meeting in Switzerland if you want to, whatever, if you want anonymous. so do something. If you really feel like you're physically getting sick now and you could start to see, by the time you're really starting to see physiological consequences, things have gotten pretty bad, because our bodies are pretty resilient, unless you've got a dose of something really, bad.

heavy. don't be afraid to go to the emergency room. your peers, if they're starting to be concerned about you, listen to them, right? Parents will always nag and complain, right? Employers may complain, but when your drug using buddies are the ones that are telling going too far

you, That's a pretty, big red flag that Even they think you're doing too much.

call. You don't have to really commit. Start call, making some calls. there's plenty of podcasts right now. that, you can get, some of them endorse it. others are scare tactics, so that's not good either. there are a lot of different messages. And of course there's plenty of people online that are going to tell you that it's perfectly fine what you're doing.

people know. They know when there's, is not a good thing for them. reach out if you want to, use your insurance benefits, you could contact the insurance company or you could look online at your insurance company or, Psychology Today or even NAADAC, may have some, a directory people and treatment centers.

just look around. You can ask your physician, but a lot of times physicians really don't have resources. you're honestly, I think you may be better off going to a 12 step meeting and asking people there, who do you guys see? What do you do? going online, the treatment centers a lot of times will have, self screening tools just to get an idea of yeah, I think I meet criteria.

I think this is pretty serious. and that may be a way. if you call them, they may try to, get you to go to their program, but you could be upfront and say, look, and this, I can't, I have kids or I have a dog or, I can't leave. Do you have a suggestion in town?

Because again, those marketing reps have great resources. They really do. they've got, I had such databases of people around the country, so you can ask your, if you have a therapist, your therapist can also look to see if there's a program that might be good, and it doesn't mean you're going to get shipped off to, expensive program.

It might mean you're going to go to an intensive outpatient program. or maybe you are going to meet with somebody who, you've been in and out of programs already. why don't you try some? Maybe the medication would help. I guess explore. There's lots of Yep. the days of, it's only a 28 day program, that's gone.

There's plenty of options now.

Chris Langley: Thank you so

much for that, Lena. Last question. Can you tell our listeners how best to contact you and to find your service online?

Lena Sheffield: you could go to, actually, psychology today is a really good resource, just in general because it, it itemizes a lot. Like you could put in maybe what insurance you have or, what, problems you have, and it'll do a little bit of a screening for you. So that's a really good place for, for mental health.

in the eating disorder world, there's a great program, a great non profit called the National Alliance for Eating Disorders. And they also have a list of people that, are trained in eating disorder, not just people who check it off on their box. NAADAC has a list. SAMHSA has a list. So psychology today is a good way to reach me directly.

and I'm on LinkedIn too. On regular social media. I, Don't connect with clients or potential clients. So it would have to be more through psychology today. Yeah, and just, people are looking for somebody, most of the time we can provide services within the state we're licensed or certified in.

so if you can't find somebody in your own community, expand it for the entire state. regardless whether, in Ohio or Kentucky or Florida, New York, so don't think you can only look in your little community. If you're willing to do telehealth, you can go for the whole state.

Chris Langley: Lena, thank you so much for your time today and telling

us about your wonderful career and the great work that you're doing in Florida. It's been a real privilege to talk to you. today and Thank you so much for joining me.

Lena Sheffield: bringing awareness to everybody.

Chris Langley: Yeah, I appreciate that. Thanks so much, Lena.

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