Ep56 SUD Treatment Budget Cuts & Recovery Advocacy

Ep56 SUD Treatment Budget Cuts & Recovery Advocacy

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

Chris Langley: Hi, welcome to Addiction Recovery Place Podcast, the podcast champion addiction treatment professionals around the world. I'm your host Chris Langley, and I'm very pleased to introduce today's guest, Don Mathis. Don is a peer-to-peer support professional and Board member from the Susquehanna Workforce Network based in Maryland.

They have a very established and successful recovery friendly workplace program, which provides a framework for employers to support employees and communities around the experience of addiction by highlighting recovery as a strength. Welcome to Addiction Recovery Place Podcast. Don. It's so great to have you with us today.

Don Mathis: Good to be with you Chris. Thanks

Chris Langley: No, I really appreciate your time and obviously you've been incredibly busy and especially I've been looking the last week, you've been on the news. You've been interviewed, so I'm very grateful for you to spend a little bit of time with us here today to tell us about your work and obviously what's going on around the country at the moment, especially with funding.

So we're just gonna kick off. Can you tell us about yourself and your career journey and how, you're doing the great work that you are doing now in your state?

Don Mathis: Let me start first Chris, by saying I'm, a person in long-term recovery, Some of the issues that we're gonna talk about, I've experienced firsthand on the, bad side of the fence and now in recovery on, I would say the good side of the fence. been involved with nonprofit work or government work.

I've worked for the federal government with the AmeriCorps program. I worked in the governor's office in Pennsylvania. I worked for the Department of Labor in Pennsylvania. I worked for Hartford County in Maryland where we live. I was a drug court. Case manager. been involved with this and also a lot of anti-poverty programs like Head Start and Medicaid and drug treatment programs and homeless youth programs.

I'm one of those, very boring tree hugging. Good do-gooders. what a bad thing to be a do-gooder. and I'm grateful for that. I've, worked some incredible people. as a private sector person and, as a government person at all levels. And, that makes the tragedies of what's happening now in terms of funding cuts and personnel cuts the federal level even where catastrophic.

And I knew we're gonna get into that later.

but right now I'm wearing two hats. I'm a certified peer recovery specialist at Voices of Hope. Show the logo here. That's where I get my paycheck.

Thank you.

which is a nonprofit agency that does a lot of great services and harm reduction. And as you also referenced, I'm involved with Recovery Friendly Workplace Program. With, the local board, I sit on the Susquehanna Workforce Network. And what, that does, Chris, it helps people recovery and their families that have gone through substance use disorder, but I'm gonna use the term substance use disorder, throughout our podcast here, rather than drug addiction. substance use disorder is a former formal medical term for what happens and drug addiction is more commonly used, but I. It has a tendency sometimes to stereotype more than the medical definition. So recovery friendly workplace, we help people in recovery get training, job certification, and we also talk to employers saying, people in recovery can make good employees.

Don Mathis: Some of them had careers before they got into, their, use or, misuse and. Now they're coming back and they can do that. And our employers found who have been working with these, that these people are incredibly conscientious, as someone in recovery that's not working.

I know I screwed up when I was using before and thank God and everybody else involved. I'm beyond that now and I think I'm a good worker. So we talk to employers about that. And what we, also do, Chris, is we provide Narcan. I've got a Narcan box somewhere, um, which is the medicine that reduces an opioid overdose and is part of the recovery friendly workplace program. we distribute Narcan and tell the employer, the employees, the workers, how to use it. So in case there's an overdose. We're helping employers, we're helping workers. And in terms of Voices of Hope, where I work, we do wound care services, we do peer support services. We do safe sex services. We do needle exchange programs. We do a lot of counseling. host and, conduct 12 step meetings, and we work with peers.

And as, as you may know, somebody that's been through life experience with that is more. able to communicate somebody that's currently in that experience.

the story I use is, meth was my, Drug of Choice Methamphetamine, which was, fun until it wasn't.

We had I'd say 30, 30 5-year-old gentleman come into Voices of Hope who was going through a meth withdrawal thing. he, I not interested in talking to a 25-year-old recovering heroin or fentanyl addict. But the fact that he came in and said, Hey, look, I did meth for years. I understand what you're going through. let's sit down and talk. Tell me how you're feeling kind of connection is really relevant.

Don Mathis: So that's what we do at Voices of Hope among many other things. And, it's, fair to say we're doing. number of good things in, in, in our county and our state, although the, increase of, drugs and the severity of drugs and ezines and of course fentanyl is blossoming, we need to redouble our efforts even more so.

that's my story. And I think what the lesson, excuse me, what the lesson here, Chris, is that in order to be effective in tackling. substance use disorder, addiction problem, it's really essential for all components of the community, whether it's the healthcare people, the business corporates, chamber of Commerce people, the nonprofit people, the leaders of faith from Christian and Islamic and Jewish Hall coming together.

And local elected officials and health departments have to come together to really try to address it. And what the, research and evaluation shows. Is when communities have that joint effort and everybody's participating their success,

When people get into recovery, more people recover. there's less crime, there's less sexually transmitted infections, there's less HIV.

All those are good things. So that, in a sense, pays for itself. And of course, the downside that we're facing now is a lot of these programs and the funding sources that enable them to happen are being. Either eliminated or severely, cut at the federal level, which translates to the state level, then translate to the county municipal level because some of those funding sources and programs are passed through grants, contained in federal legislation.

I. Which is now being threatened and then goes to your governor's office or your state health department, which can go to your county health department or nonprofits within the area so that, that chain, that those levels to tiers of service are, all in jeopardy right now.

Chris Langley: Yeah, so what you've just described is the money just goes down the line and by the time it gets to the people it's supposed to be received by, it's just gone, or it potentially will be,

Don Mathis: it gets pretty well, it gets pretty well used.

Chris Langley: yeah.

Don Mathis: there, there, are legitimate administrative costs, a state to administer a program and for a county administrative program. And at least in our case in Maryland and Hartford County.

And I can't speak for where all your viewers are.

It's a reasonable, amount of money. the

Don Mathis: to the programs and what have you, that's less of, that's less of an issue than it used to be years ago. and again, what made it happen is advocacy. I I think that's gonna be one of the themes of our discussion today is advocacy and how you affect these systems. help reinforce what works and the successes. And help respond to, and maybe turn back some of the real, drastic threats to our programs and the people we serve.

Chris Langley: You, you, men, you touched on something quite, profound earlier, Don, because you said that, you. In your community, you work with different communities towards the, goal of, recovery. And with this, that breaks down stigma as well, which once you break down stigma of addiction, it just helps to increase service accessibility for everyone.

Don Mathis: Stigma has been a longstanding issue that, people have. basically what it refers to is people think of people that use drugs as having weak character or moral failure, or why can't they pull themselves up by their bootstraps or da. what, we, again, what we found through research and what have you and what the expression we like to use is the drugs hijack your brain. That the cravings become so intense that, you think, why can't they just say no? Which you may have heard President Trump wants to bring back that program.

why can't they just say no? their brain tells 'em otherwise. I was a case manager in drug courts, Chris, and I remember very well. I had say 35, thirties age woman in an orange jumpsuit in shackles, ankle shackles, getting ready to go back to jail. she's talking to the judge. She was a real good judge, saying, your Honor, I. I love my husband, I love my kids. I really miss my kids and what have you. But if somebody put a line of heroin in front of me right now, I'd do it in a heartbeat. And that's the kind of craving that addiction really brings about, and that's why it is a use disorder, a mental health issue. we've made some, advances over the last 10 years. The Surgeon General of Vivek Murthy did an alcohol drugs. study, years ago that really confronted that it's not a moral failure.

It really is a disease. And since then there's been more acceptance of that. as we work with community groups, they go, oh yeah, the stigma we thought. If these people were dog meat or they just didn't have any, willpower, that's not really the case because it is a disease or a health condition, whatever you wanna prefer. it does take up their lives. And once that understanding happens, stigma starts to diminish. And the understanding and the empathy and the need to provide services and programs increases. And, that's what we're seeing now. One, one last little anecdote.

When I worked at drug court, so I worked for a, great guy, Joe or Ryan, was a retired state policeman, and they were talking about opening a, recovery house, sober living house for eight women in the northern part, very rural part of our county. the neighbors and farmers up there in that road. We can't do this. They'll be coming from Baltimore, Sin City. They'll be coming across the state line from Delaware. They'll, we'll be attracting all these bad people.

In his great wisdom, boss, Joe, went to the sheriff's office and got the arrest records of everybody who had been arrested for drug use in that area and put pins in the map and went to the next community meeting and saying, these aren't people from Baltimore and Delaware. These are your neighbors. These are your kids. And that's who we're trying to serve. So the last stat about three years ago, the Johns Hopkins did a survey. 52% of all Marylanders, all everybody in the state knows somebody with a substance use disorder. And once it starts to permeate as a problem, people become more understanding because it happens to them.

And then we're

open to seeing solutions and less likely to hold on to stereotypes. And why don't we just lock 'em up and throw away the key.

Chris Langley: Yeah. Yeah. That's a really powerful way of getting the message across to, to show you and that must have been incredible and to hear about the shift in attitude so quickly just because of that one thing. Yeah. That should be done across the country.

Don Mathis: to some degree it is.

We're building a movement,

unfortunately for all the wrong reasons. The, Federal Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Office the Department of Health, SAMHSA, which provides funding to Voices of Hope, which we're now gonna lose. Those funds are being cut.

The Center for Disease Control. there was a CDC worker on, a national network the other night talking about how she worked with community drug programs, which Cecil County, Maryland, one of the counties I work with, has one of these community advocacy grants they've had for five years. They're being totally slashed.

The staff is being slashed. And as a result of that, Chris, there has been an acro, not just about this, but many other things, Medicaid, which I'd like to talk about a little

bit. services saying, wait a minute, you know what's gonna happen and what I know we're gonna talk about the end, what people can do to, advocate and be useful on this issue.

One thing we're, doing, and I'm part of some state and national efforts, is we're showing the impact. What if your program went away? What would happen to those people and to those in those communities, to the lifestyle and quality of life in those communities if those programs went away. And, if I can digress for a second and go to Medicaid, I.

As Voices of Hope, we help enroll people into Medicaid. That's the program, the National Health Program for low income people, homeless people with disabilities and what have you. we enroll people in Medicaid so they can get health services. now,

The Republicans and the House of Representatives, and soon and already approved by President Trump and Vice President Elon Musk

Don Mathis: They want to make an $858 billion cut. I. In Medicaid 800. So that means that the people who would normaly walk into Voices of Hope that we could enroll in Medicaid, likely won't get services. So what's gonna happen to them? Let's give the consequences road for a second. There's not gonna be Medicaid. They're not gonna get that services from a healthcare provider. What are they gonna, they're gonna go to emergency rooms at hospitals.

Emergency rooms. I was on the local hospital board for 10 years. University of Maryland Hospital System. I think I know the system pretty well. They're gonna go to the emergency room and by federal law in every state where your viewers are, emergency rooms have to take these people and they'll take them without any kind of reimbursement, means the hospitals are gonna end up eating those costs, which means everybody's insurance cost is gonna go up I don't know what's happening in, in, in all the states around the country, but I know Maryland we got a notice from the department, the County Department of Emergency Services. If you have the flu or something, please don't come to the hospital emergency room, go to a, a clinic one of these, fast stop clinics go because our emergency rooms are so overwhelmed now that if everybody came in, we wouldn't have any room for them. What's gonna happen?

When

of thousands of Medicaid recipients don't have the services that they can chop around and get treatment or go to urgent care or what have you, or a regular doctor or healthcare provider, they're gonna go to the emergency room and that's gonna, that's gonna be crazy. And, so there's a lot of consequences we can anticipate with these cuts. And, again, people that were, that are listening, that work in this field, watching work in this field, one thing you can think about is what would happen if your program go away. And the other strategy we're advocating, and I'm sorry to hop around Chris, you'll have to

reign me In, is that, people who are policy makers who are most questionable or dubious about services, rarely respond to statistics.

I. if you say, We had 80 participants in our program and 40 of them successfully completed recovery treatment. And 50% is not a bad number, but they're gonna go, oh yeah. So what have you, what they do respond to in a better way is individual stories. They like stories with anecdotes with a person's, at least first name and a face, and what their background is, and know, where they live and what they were coping with and how that process works.

So we, common maantra. In our visiting, no data without stories and no stories without data. If

people can start

compiling those, and I'm sure they are already, I don't mean to speak down to anybody, I'm sure they have that. But now challenge is to get them to larger platforms and larger exposure, through the media letters to the editor, town hall meetings and what have you, They can really widen the net of people who understand the problem and how we can deal with it.

Chris Langley: Goodness me. So you mentioned $855 billion that the administration is planning on cutting. Is that if. I'm, just trying to get to grips with that number because that covers Medicaid. Medicare

Don Mathis: NO, that's just the Medicaid number.

Chris Langley: That's just the Medicaid number.

Don Mathis: number,

Chris Langley: Wow.

Don Mathis: it's important to, to remember that

health,

that out of every four, children in the United States is covered by Medicaid. I think it's 40% of adults that may be a high number, but a substantial number of adults are covered by Medicaid. I, don't wanna sound like I'm too conspiratorial here, so I'll try not to be, but the thinking among advocates and people that work in that system is the plan of the trump administration and the people that work in that is, this is what they're gonna do with Social Security also, is to downgrade the program in terms of accessibility, in terms of services, in terms of effectiveness. And after the, program start to become less effective because there's less money, less staff, less accessibility. these programs don't work, so let's get rid of them all together. and I know that sounds, pretty alarmist and maybe some kind of negative leftist fantasy, but,

these, cuts are significant. So we need to, respond to that. And I think Chris, you and I had also talked about before in one of our brief sessions about the other programs that were related to that, the supplemental nutrition assistance programs, snap, which is food stamps. Uh,

the other programs that, people with substance use disorder and low income on Medicaid often are SNAP recipients. They get food

stamps. And now the notion of cutting that back and not just cutting that back, but cutting back breakfast and school lunch programs. I was a former director of our local Boys and Girls clubs. We had about 3000 young people who were members of our various locations around the counties. One thing we've instituted since I left many years ago is they now have a breakfast program because they found out that many of the kids who were coming to their after school program, all they had was some kind of school lunch. And, they were starting to, starting going to school, being hungry. Which is not the easiest way to learn things if you're down. So our boys and girls clubs now provide school breakfast, which is wonderful for the kids that want and

need it. program's being cut. And afterschool programs.

There's a program called 21st Century Schools, which provides after afterschool services that program's being entirely cut. That's a program that gives, kids six to 18,

place to go afterschool. They can get tutoring, they can be computers, they can do art, they can have with friends.

They can play foosball, they can shoot pool, they can play basketball, they can play soccer, they can hang out, they can do groups with each other. those programs are gonna be gone. I. Let me do the cut sign here.

Chris Langley: Yeah. Yeah.

Don Mathis: and, what's the consequence of that?

.well, school absenteeism might be higher rate.

school student performance is gonna be lower because they're not gonna have the nutrition programs that they had before. Their family lives are gonna be more, stress at home because the food stamps snap benefits are gonna be gone or significantly reduced. So there's a whole intersection. Of these safety net programs as they're called, they include Medicare, Medicaid. Medicare is for the old geezers like me, I'm on Medicare, and I'm on social security.

and I work part-time now, but social security is a major part of my income and I've been

into it since I was 20 and I'm 77 now. I got, 57 years of, cash that I've been putting into the system. so there's real challenges and again, getting, back to our, primary topic, Chris, this impacts more heavily on people with substance use disorder and their

families than it does other people. But again, to be clear, use disorder, every zip code, every family, every neighborhood, every gender, every income level, every educational level. it's, It is interesting. I was a director of a national nonprofit organization called the Community Action Partnership, and my last week there, which was a while back, was in b Idaho, Jefferson City of Missouri, and, Dayton, Ohio, in the same week period. in each of those three sites, Chris, somebody would come and say, Jefferson City is the drug capital of America. Boise, Idaho is really the big drug capital of America. Ohio has the highest drug rates in Ohio and is the drug capital of America. we got a lot of drug capitals in America and, and they meant that, it was a heartfelt thing. the fact is it's everywhere. It's everywhere. we need to redouble our efforts, not eliminate them. And,

are ways we can do that.

Chris Langley: So the ramifications of what you're describing here, Don it's just, it's astounding. how soon could these cuts take effect? Because we're gonna touch on something that, what happened in the UK later, but with the cuts that, that. The administration are now trying to push through.

How soon could this

It's happening now.

Don Mathis: It's happening now. The substance abuse, mental health services, that division of, Health in of, the Department of Health and Human Services and a Center for Disease Control and Prevention. Those people have been laid off already.

There was a woman on TV talking about she was in charge of the community coalitions program, 500 communities across the country that get grants to bring people together. We have one in one of the counties that I work in, they have an incredibly successful program. They brought the school people, the treatment people and the business people together for after school program where they get counseling and treatment and their parents can refer. And it's a prevention program. And it's not saying just say No, which the research showed actually created more substance use than it could because there were

kids exposed To drugs that didn't know about 'em. it's not some condemnation, you gotta do this or scared straight or what have you. It's a pro, the programs that help young people make responsible decisions,

this is the consequences of what you do, are the programs that are being cut now. They've ended

their funding.

I mentioned, Voices of Hope, who I worked for in the last four or five months, got a grant from SAMHSA that was $300,000 plus for three years. That grant has been eliminated. So this is community-based non-profit organizations that have been part of this system, that are providing the direct services, that have excellent track records, that are saving money when Voices of Hope gives out. When Voices of Hope staff people provide and use Narcan on the person, that means a law enforcement officer, cop, emergency medical technician doesn't have to get in an ambulance and drive that and do it. We save them money.

when we do it, that means that person doesn't go to the emergency room of the hospital to be treated for an overdose.

Don Mathis: That means we reverse the overdose here in our little nonprofit cubby and save that life and also reduce the cost for that emergency room, which is already under stress. the, cuts are, just, devastating and, it's not if they happen, the problem's gonna go away. The problem's gonna get worse and worse for a greater number of people?

Chris Langley: Absolutely. Is there anything that could be done to stop these cuts? Is there anything at all? 'cause

Don Mathis: I don't know if we can stop them, but we can certainly oppose them.

One thing, people that watch the news, there have been certain members of Congress that have been having town hall meetings where people in that area have said, "Hey, wait a minute. I don't want Medicaid cut. I'm worried about my Social Security. I just lost my job. I was fired as a federal government worker, and I was given 30 minutes to clean up my desk and escorted out by the police. I live across the river from a veteran's hospital. The Veteran's Administration has cut 80,000 employees, 80,000 veteran employees. What some of us are doing, we're attending town hall meetings where we can directly question and express our views to those elected officials. Some elected officials are not having town hall meetings. I am either blessed or cursed to live in the district of Congressman Andy Harris. He's a Republican. He's the chairman of the Freedom Caucus in the US House, which is the most conservative house members. He's also a physician. He was a physician at Johns Hopkins and stopped practicing once he got into politics. Congressman Harris is not having town hall meetings.

299 of my closest friends and I, and 298 of my closest friends because my wife Suzanne, went with me, demonstrated outside of Congress. Congressman Harris's call and I had his sign. Say, "Hey Andy, tell Elon and his muskrats to keep his hands off. Head Start, social Security, Medicaid." There were 300 of us there and we've done that twice. There was going to be another town hall meeting in the upper part of Maryland this weekend, where Harris has been invited, and he won't show. So we're gonna have, they're gonna have a cardboard cutout. Congressman Harris Air and have the town hall meeting, and

they're hundreds of people to that. That's one thing you can do is communicate with the elected officials and let 'em know you don't like it.

Two, one favorite tool that I like are letters to the editor of the local paper.

And, that's real easy to do and you don't have to, write the Great American novel and you don't have to be an expert on statistics.

You can write, I'm a. Oh, I've seen them. "I'm a 70. one was in the New York Times the other day. I'm a 78-year-old blind Vietnam veteran. I just found out the program that I'm in, my health treatment program has been terminated. What am I supposed to do?" And if you're a parent with kids, that's being affected by this. If you're a parent with an older person, my mother was on Medicaid for the last, 13 months of her life, not before then, just then before she passed away. If you have a, an older person or a family member that's on Medicaid, getting treatment and even end of life treatment or, geriatric care, this is my story. If you have a child that goes to head starter daycare program, childcare programs, "I have a 7-year-old kid. I'm a single mom. I work full time. I need this preschool program. I need this afterschool program." Just tell your story and the more we can make the cases there. Of course, responding to the House and the Senate and the Trump administration is critical, but also to your governor, your local elected officials. I live in an area two-county area that my program serve, are predominantly Republican. They're almost all Republican, elected official of City councils, county councils, and we're letting them know that if you endorse this action by the president, is what it means for Haverty Grace Maryland. This is what it means for Upton Maryland. This is what it means for Bel Air Maryland and bringing home the real life day-to-day implications of what these highfaluting maybe seem too-far-away Policies mean. This is real important. I mentioned I was on the hospital board. One of the things they're proposing is that nonprofit hospitals declare mandatorily, declare themselves for profit, so they have to pay property taxes and other taxes. hospitals are making money, maybe not a lot of money, in rural areas for closing. I'm sure you have viewers in rural areas and there are 700 rural hospitals. 700 rural hospitals that have closed in the last three years. And a lot of those rural hospitals rely Chris on Medicaid reimbursement. So where they are now the Medicaid is cut and the hospital is still open, they're gonna have the influx of patients to that hospital that they can't get any money for, and there'll be more than 700 rural hospitals closing. So the impact of this. And everything from what you eat and the air you breathe and the schools your kids go to, and the healthcare treatment you can get, and the recovery treatment you get is under threat. So we need to do something.

And I Know I, I go to some town hall meetings and people will say, I know this stuff that's happening is wrong. I watch the news, or I read the paper, or I go on the social media and I'm so overwhelmed by all the issues, I don't know what to do. And my response to that is totally understandable. There is just a boatload of issues. Pick one or two that are really important to you, and your family and your workplace, and what have you. Focus on those one and two issues, and really put your best energy into that because, for everyday folks that don't do the kind of stuff that, that I do for a living and you do for a living,

it's too complicated. They've. Real life situations to deal with and they can't spend their 10 hours a day, filing the latest executive order by the president or what have you. But there's a lot of information available and the, to get back to our primary function, treatment works.

Recovery is possible. You know,

if you can only say four words and you're involved in the substance use disorder, field treatment works, recovery is possible and just hammering that mission home, that

message home,

and, if you belong to a faith-based organization, a church, a temple, a mosque, what have you see if you can enroll the people there and your faith-based leaders into taking on some of these issues because it really is a moral issue.

If, you approach people that say, I don't give, I don't give a damn about that. Or let the people die or lock 'em up, or, I give them Narcan, just let 'em overdose and die. If they

to the moral issue, respond to the economic issue.

costs more

for you as a taxpayer and it costs more for you. as a customer for the various services you buy. If we don't have these services, then if we do have these services, so economically it's better we do it the way we're trying to do it and we double that effort. Say let's, meet Elon Musk with the chainsaw. I don't know if everybody saw that video, was, Elon Musk went to a national conference in, DC and proudly was waving this chainsaw around, showing how he was gonna cut all the programs. I don't know what the definition of obscenity is, but that would fall under my category really

easily.

And, that's not consistent with the history of our country. And that's not

consistent with what I think are America's values. And, The days of rugged individualism are over, and it's not because there aren't rugged individualists. There are. The fact is we're dependent upon each other. .the

quality of life for the kid that sits next to my kid in school makes a difference. The quality of life to the people that are in Walmart shopping when I'm in Walmart shopping makes a difference. And,

I think we've seen with the covid epidemic that a lot of things can be contagious. And right now we have a contagious of, ugly policies that .we need to get a vaccine for. And the vaccine for that is being active, standing up for our programs and what we believe in. I think what many of us think are right. I don't think it's right to deny food to people.

I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna touch an immigration issue, but I think if a 10-year-old goes to the hospital to get cancer treatment, she should get her cancer treatment and not be put in a cage in Texas. .

I think older people that are on Medicaid. need those services and the program shouldn't be ended because, it's gonna happen. I live in Maryland, which where Johns Hopkins University is. Johns Hopkins is one of the premier medical research institutions in the country. Cancer, diabetes, end of life, leukemia, all kinds of diseases. They've had 2000 physicians at Hopkins cut by virtue of cancellation of the research and treatment contracts. There was a veteran on the local tv. He's in stage four cancer. He was in part of an experimental group at Johns Hopkins doing this novel treatment because his cancer is so severe, program's been ended, his treatment's been ended. Here's a guy in his early forties years in the military, has stage four cancer, in the treatment program, but showing positive results and overnight. Overnight, he gets signed in, not "Hey, can you wind this down in six months? Or can we make an... no, clean out your desk in 30 minutes and go home." And the program's over. Gosh. We need to ask ourselves is that the kind of country we want? that the kind of medical system we want? Is that how we wanna treat our neighbors?

We want, is that the way we wanna be treated? my answer is no. and there are a lot of us, but we have to make noise.

And, We need to support those policy makers that understand how and drastic these problems are. And we need to challenge legally, respectfully, but strongly. The politicians that think these are really good ideas, we're gonna save

a lot of

money that's gonna be saved are the taxes on billionaires that are gonna get a tremendous tax cut. And that's where the, that's where the Medicaid money is going. Chris,

the Medicaid

Money is being cut. So that tax increases for billionaires can be substantially increased. .And this isn't some kind of exaggeration by some

kind of leftist

Here. The Trump people and the billionaires are saying as much.

Chris Langley: I know, I, find it quite bizarre that people cheer this on without really understanding the full ramifications of what they're cheering on, because as soon as they're affected themselves, they're gonna be screaming back at them. it's horrific.

Don Mathis: They're starting to understand it. I didn't

mean to interrupt you, but just one quick

thing I'm not trying to be partisan about this, but when President Trump ran his president, he was gonna lower the price of eggs. was

gonna lower

The price of groceries. He was gonna end the war in Ukraine, and he was gonna do five or six other things. The very first day.

He didn't talk about cutting these programs. He didn't do the six things he said he was going to do, and he is doing six things he never said he was gonna do. And tying back to your point, Chris, I think that people starting to realize that, "hey, the price of eggs didn't go down. my snap benefits are being cut off entirely and I really don't need Medicaid being cut off because my mother is in a senior citizens home."

So I, think there's being some, awakening there.

Don Mathis: but the election results are in, and the people have the power and, the

think in ways that, that I don't think control the House, the Senate, and the White House. We need to be good advocates and stand up for what we think is right and what's good for people.

Chris Langley: Yeah. Standing united is so important.

Don Mathis: Absolutely.

Chris Langley: It really is. it's not on the scale of what you are describing here, Don, but in the UK we had, I told you when I explained this, when we first met, we had austerity in 2010 when the Tory government came in and, the labor government, they weren't terrific, but they funded things.

I was involved, I was working in the sector at the time, 2010. The government came in, they removed funding. they instigated austerity on a massive scale. Everything was ripped apart. drug services were gone, mental health charities were gone, but it was done slowly. And then in 2016 because of austerity.

I believe we had a vote called Brexit because people wanted change, and quite rightly, they wanted change, but it wasn't the right change. And now since then, I've thankfully been here in America for the last 10 years. But I've seen what has happened with the fabric of society in England. I, speak to old colleagues in England as to what's happened.

I've interviewed my old boss on there as well on this podcast as well. And hearing how. This is austerity and funding has just taken a wrecking ball to the country and people are cheering it on still. And I just don't get it. I just don't understand.

Don Mathis: So there's not been an outcry from...

Chris Langley: No, because the newspapers over there are so powerful.

They, there's no, the, only voice is the right leaning, everything's fine kind of thing. Where society itself is just, society help is just gone.

Don Mathis: I'm sorry

to hear that. That's.

Chris Langley: No, it is. England used to be a very social country. We had things funded when I think the NHS is gonna be, is gonna be gone, I think in a few years.

I also think social services, which funds all our elderly care, is gonna be gone. That's gonna be gone . and people just treat this as if it's nothing and I just don't get it. And it's similar to over here where are just going well. It's saving us a bit of cash, but they don't understand the long term ramifications, and when they get affected themselves, that's when they kick off.

Indeed.

Don Mathis: had a couple surprise advocates here in elected oficials, and one major reason is. their son or daughter or their nephew, or their cousin, or their brother or their sister got heavily involved with drugs and fentanyl all of a sudden that opened new eyes for them.

and it's unfortunate that's what it took. and it sounds like the situation in the UK is really terrible and I'm sorry to hear that. but there's a cost for that.

if the social services, shuts down like you suggest. And the National health Services either go away or so diminished. What are you gonna do when you're walking the streets of London and there's people panhandling and dying on the streets and sleeping in the parks and what have you? they're not gonna go away. Do you wan to save them and make them healthy in taxpayers again, or do you want to compost their bodies in a field somewhere?

it's the, cutting off service services can be improved. No doubt about it.

I You were kind of saying, you know, the, National Health Service, you worked there, they'd had mixed record, but they did good and they funded programs well,

that's a plus. That's a real plus.

And if you take that, that funding away, the Voices of Hope where I worked with, we have 52 certified peer recovery specialists. We go to the jails and get people after they're discharged and taken to treatment or take them home. We go to drug courts and support them on their behalf. We provide transportation.

If they walk on our door and they go to a recovery center, we coordinate the treatment for them in the detox center, in a recovery house, in a long-term treatment center. We help them enroll in Medicaid. Sometimes they don't have a Social Security number or driver's license. We take them and get that stuff restored. And I'm not trying to be self-righteous or aggrandizing here. Voices of Hope and many organizations just like this in Hartford County, help people rebuild their lives. I say to some elected officials who are not quite as empathic as they could be, say, "we wanna turn tax drainers into taxpayers." Oh, that's a good thing. Oh, okay. if that's what it takes to protect I'll say that it's true, people that are. Going through emergency rooms, doing stuff like that, using Medicaid, getting food stamps or what have you, and not contributing to the tax system. it's a drain, but it's a well-deserved drain because we're trying to

rebuild those

lives.

But the recovery friendly

workplace program that I talked about, helped people, Get sober and get jobs. And more importantly, we reached out to the employee community, the chamber of look, you can hire these people.

So,

it may be baby steps along the way or maybe, pegs in the cribbage board, whatever kind of analogy you wanna use.

But, we can make progress if we keep making progress. If we break

the cribbage board in half and throw it in a wood chipper, we got nothing. . And, we could

be on the verge of that. But,

I encourage all your, subscribers and viewers to be active. I would be glad to talk with them or email with them. my email address is a real

Chris Langley: simple one.

Don Mathis: It's donmathis59@aim.com . , One thing we're doing here, Chris, I'm on the board of a local cable tv. We're doing a show on April 10th

It's called Facing Addiction Hartford County. It's a family affair and it's gonna run one night.

We're gonna do an opera house which seats 200 people. It'll be on the TV shows, Facebook page, and it'll be taped and aired on our local cable station for about a month. We have a, panel. We have three panels. A fellow who's wrote a great book Chasing a Flawed Sun, Dan McGee, who's a very successful businessman now whose life are in addiction, is just incredible. The book is sold over a hundred thousand copies on Amazon. is gonna speak up. We have panelists. We have a family guy in recovery who's reunited with his family. Talk about what the problems were there. I have a drug court judge from Family Recovery Court, which helps people with addiction. Satisfy their criminal penalties, and then get back with their kids and what have you. And we've got other therapists and experts who'll run about an hour. But this is, and I'll send you the flyer on this, but is the kind of thing that again, other people can do if you have a local ca cable station or, local access station.

And I've done two in the last month. hey. This is what we do. This is our program, this is our service. This is their, by law, those stations can't get political or what have you. But you can talk about your service, what you've done, what your success story is. give those people a call.

Send them a note and say, we'd like to do a segment on your air.

It's funny, people say, whoever watches local cable tv, once you're on it, the following day, 30 people will come up to you and say, Hey, I saw you on cable.

Um.

Don Mathis: So that's an effective thing. And the other part that's good about that is policy makers and their staff really follow that stuff. They follow local cable. They also follow letters to the editor. I had a letter to the editor, last year about arug treatment program. And one of our state senator sent me an email the next day saying, thanks for doing this, da so they pay attention. The more voices we can raise, the more constituents we can have, the more

messages we can send to our community. Treatment works. Recovery is possible. Here's my story. Here's somebody's story. Support these programs. Oppose these cuts. We have a chance of, surviving

Chris Langley: Yes. My goodness. I have one last question to ask you, Don. and I think it's, I think you can answer this beautifully, but can you tell our listeners how to, do you have a message for anyone listening to this podcast who is going from an addiction and just wants help?

Don Mathis: it's, a message I have the privilege of, sharing every day at work and beyond is that one help is available. And if you need that and aren't getting it, send me an email. I have a national network, part of a national network of friends and providers in other states, but help is available. One, the message is, treatment does work. Recovery is possible. it's not an easy path all the time. I've worked with individuals that have had setbacks and relapsed three, four or five times they've gone to treatment. my daughter through marriage, to my wonderful wife, Suzanne, was a heroin addict on the street for 10 years.

And screaming at her mother and forging checks and what have you. She's six years sober now. She works in an autism program, working directly with autistic people and supervising other staff too. Recovery is possible. Stick with it.

Don Mathis: I work for a place called Voices of Hope. and that's the most important thing for people really in that jam.

Families in that jam is, have hope. There are other families that have gone through the same thing that your family has and that you have. There are lessons to be learned there. There are resources to be tapped. There are strategies you can implement both for your own self-care. Your own self-care as well as the family member you're worried about. I know substance use disorder is not pretty. I was in drug court, I was, I worked in four drug courts I've seen, the downsides that, addictive, hijacked brain behavior can lead to. But, as long as somebody is breathing, recovery is possible. And, learn how to use Narcan if, your loved one is involved with an opioid. what the recess, resources are available are. I'm sure it's more difficult in some areas than others. But there are family support groups, mental health association chapters, other community based groups, um, health departments. There are advocates there, whose lived experience can be relevant to you your current living experience. And, I've seen people, I had, one guy the first time he came and I just said, this guy is never gonna get well, he, would, he'd smoke cocaine and shoot up meth. Right outside our office, down the end of the shopping center. Before he came in I said, James ain't gonna make it. James is clean and sober and reunited with his mom and family and is seeing res regular visitations with his two daughter and is working part-time and hasn't used a drug. And I would just say no matter how hopeless the situation may seem. It's not totally hopeless, as long as they're still breathing and, stay with them the best you can.

That doesn't mean enabling, that doesn't mean giving them money to go buy drugs. It doesn't mean driving them into the city so they can cop. means staying with them in ways and not giving up on them. that's hard, especially with time. It's hard. It doesn't get any easier, there is a light at the end of that tunnel. Many people have made it You can too. Your family can too, with the right help. again, Chris, you can send, I don't know how you transcribe or do this stuff. You can send my email address around,

Chris Langley: Yep.

Don Mathis: I'm

not big

On getting texts because I got too many of those already and I'm more likely to lose them, . But send me an email and if

you're in Squirrel tree, state x, I will find somebody in that state that you can, talk to and refer to.

Chris Langley: Thank you Phil. Don, it's been a real privilege and an honor to speak to you today.

I'm, in awe of your work. I'm in awe of your career and everything that you do. I was trying to keep up with the amount of the work that you've done since you've been working in this sector.

And it's quite astounding. You, are, helping, saving lives on a daily basis and it's just amazing. I'm, in awe, so thank you so much.

Don Mathis: to make your work a little bit easier. There, there are thousands of mes around doing that good work and be one. And I thank you for your

Kind words.

Chris Langley: this is what the podcast is about, Don. It's about championing the work and it's always a privilege to speak to anyone, but, today has been very special for me, so thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

Don Mathis: Be

Chris Langley: Thank you. You too.

Do, do, do, do, do.