Ep55 Addiction Treatment Quieter EMDR Trauma Therapy

[00:00:00] Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

Chris Langley: Hi, welcome to Addiction Recovery Place Podcast, the podcast championing addiction treatment professionals around the world. I'm your host, Chris Langley, and I'm very pleased to introduce today's guest, David Walterford. David is an EMDR and Addiction Therapist, a Licensed Clinical Social Worker, and immediate past president of WAADAC, the Washington State affiliate of NAADAC, the voice of the addiction professionals. Thank you so much for joining me today, David.

It's really good to have you with us.

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: Thank you, Chris. It's glad to be here. Thanks for the invitation.

Chris Langley: No, I really appreciate it. Obviously, you're very, very busy. So let's get straight on to the first question, shall we? So can you tell me about yourself and your journey to becoming a Licensed Clinical Social Worker and Therapist?

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: Yeah. So my name is David Woldtvedt. I am the Immediate Past President and current treasurer of WAADAC, which is the Washington State Affiliate of NAADAC, and my journey to clinical social work, started, I mean, at heart, I am an addictions counselor, an addictions professional, and so my first [00:01:00] certification in the state and, practice as a counselor was in Washington State.

Addiction treatment and so that is my foundation and who I am at heart and I also am a person in recovery, coming up on 12 years of continuous recovery without any use of mind altering substances and so this career and this work for me is only possible, you know, as a result of my own personal recovery status.

So that's how I got here today.

Chris Langley: So 12, so 12 years ago, you began this journey. Is that right?

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: yes, 12 years ago, late January of 2013.

Chris Langley: Well, congratulations, because what you've achieved since we're going to talk about this a great deal in the podcast today, but you've achieved Such an immense amount of work in the last 12 years. so big congratulations to you, David. It's wonderful to hear this. I'd just like to ask you the first question.

You have a group practice at Sadler Bridges Wellness Group in Edmonds, Washington. Can you tell me about this, about this and what work that you do?

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: Yeah, absolutely. So [00:02:00] after graduating from the University of Washington with a Master's in Social Work, I got my, my licensure to be able to practice in mental health, private practice settings. And I decided to join a group. The group that I was working at had, couple supervisors that went out and formed their own group and I just kept tabs on them and, the fit seemed right.

I had moved to Edmonds and they had a little practice down on the waterfront near the ferry. And, I decided to link up with Raquel and Jamie. Raquel is a very skilled, tre trainer and dialectical behavioral therapy therapist and has a lot of certifications. Jamie's a very skilled, sex therapist.

And, we all have our specific, carved out. You know, mine is really trauma and addiction. We have some child and play therapists and those that like working with couples So we're sort of a group of therapists, about 12 of us that, you know, practice here in Edmonds, Washington.

Chris Langley: and how [00:03:00] long has the practice been running for?

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: They've been going for just over a year. So August of 2023 is when, when the group formed.

Chris Langley: Wow, that's incredible that you've done this in such a short space of time. one of your specialities which I mentioned earlier was EMDR, which I've always found fascinating form of therapy. So what is, what is it about this form of therapy that makes it so effective for trauma and also for addiction?

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: Just to give you a little bit of background on the therapy that was founded in the 1980s by a psychologist named Francine Shapiro. And she was sitting on a park bench, in a lot of distress. She had just got out of a doctor's appointment and been diagnosed with cancer. And she noticed that as she moved her eyes quickly from left to right, well, not moving her head, but just kind of darting her eyes back and forth while sitting on the park bench, while thinking about this distressing news that she had just received, that she noticed that she felt a little less emotionality and a little less upset.

And so she thought, hmm, maybe there's something to this and started [00:04:00] looking at what. What was out there on eye movement, there wasn't a lot in the 1980s. They looked at Erikson and the founders of hypnosis, to find out what were some of the mechanisms in play. EMDR is not hypnosis. EMDR is, maybe in some cases the opposite of hypnosis.

It puts you into a more hyper aware, activated state, but the emotionality and vividness while receiving hypnosis Bilateral stimulation. While it started with eye movement, and that's what the modality is named after, they found that any form of bilateral stimulation can help reduce the, the emotionality in the business.

Online tapping, you know, I could see the butterfly hug and tapping. You'd be tapping on your kneecaps. in office, there's a lot of different tools. We have light bars, paddles that vibrate, headphones that do bilateral audio sound. and it's very different than a traditional talk therapy. It's a lot quieter.

I stumbled into it because I felt like I was, a very heavily [00:05:00] traumatized population in the addiction, in the addiction world. And aside from asking somebody to tell me about their trauma story, I felt like I didn't have a very good way. A lot of people don't like to have to talk about that.

It's difficult to talk about an EMDR to be effective. The person doesn't have to talk about the trauma. They have to hold it in the mind's eye, and they have to be able to receive that bilateral stimulation. And then they can share as much as they want with the therapist. But for the therapy to be effective.

They don't have to talk. And so sessions are a lot quieter. there's a lot of self soothing. There's, there's tools. It's, very heavily researched. There's, you know, 500 different studies. About 40 of them are, you know, empirically reviewed, double blind. so I just feel like I, it was a very impactful training.

I got trained in Florida in 2021. under a psychologist named Dr. Andrew Dobo, who only trains therapists now and has a, has a program called the EMDR educators of Florida. he's also [00:06:00] certified me. I'm awaiting EMDRIA certification, which is the international body for, for EMDR. yeah, so really found kind of a calling here and it was one of the most impactful trainings that I'd ever done.

Therapists practicing EMDR on each other, therapists, You know, crying as they get over their own sort of hurts and hang ups. people that, have phobias of, of oranges or banana. I'm watching them get over their, their, their phobias in just a couple, you know, in about 20 minutes sometimes. it was pretty, pretty incredible, very powerful and impactful type of training.

Chris Langley: Wow, so it's clearly quite a successful form of, form of therapy and how long does, how many sessions does someone normally have with this form of therapy, David, would you say? What's the average?

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: It's very dependent on, know, if it's a more complicated or complex trauma in a very, long timeline full of events versus, [00:07:00] you know, a single episode trauma like a car accident or assault or if somebody has, you know, just one event that is very distressing and bothersome, EMDR can be the lightning bolt for that.

It can really go in and help, Just within a short amount of sessions, just a few sessions, be okay with that. When there's a more complicated when it's a complex PTSD that you're dealing with, EMDR can be effective, but I really found that a multi modal approach and using other therapies and integrating other stuff could be very helpful for, for somebody with a more complicated So it's one, one tool for the toolbox.

It's one that I specialize in, but I like to, to draw, draw and other stuff,

Chris Langley: So there are other therapists available at the Sadler Bridges Wellness Group that can maybe jump in and do some other therapeutic intervention, would you say, or do you take the lead on all of your clients?

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: If, a referral or adjunct work with someone else or, wanting to bring their, their family in or do some [00:08:00] couples work and have relationship issues, we lean on each other to do adjunct work from, from time to time. but yeah, just in terms of the question around how it can help with addiction, usually you're trying to lessen the level of distress and that bilateral stimulation that I talked about can help

lesson the intensity of that. What they've also found is that same mechanism can help reduce the level of urge for cravings. And so, instead of desensitizing traumas, and when you're working with addictions, you're desensitizing and systematically working on each of the triggers, trigger points that create a level of in the person that makes them want to use and try to get that to calm down through use of the bilateral stimulation.

Chris Langley: That sounds absolutely fascinating. Thank you. Thank you so much for explaining that. And, you've got to be internationally qualified to do this very soon. Certified. Is that right? Yes.

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: MDREA is the gold standard. I consider NAADAC, the addiction professional, the premier organization for the addiction professional. I [00:09:00] would consider MDREA the premier organization for the EMDR professional. to practice EMDR, you don't have to be MDREA certified, nor have you, would you have to even have taken an MDREA basic training, which is a 40 hour training with 10 hours of consultation on top of that.

So it's a 50 hour training to be able to start practicing under 10 hours. a consultant or an improved consultant. I would encourage people to, to do these types of trainings. I would encourage people to do NAADAC certifications, but, I feel like EMDR is one that you can't just read a book on then be able to practice effectively, you could do a PESI training or some other type of training, but I really feel for somebody to do this, to do no harm.

Because, as we know with certain therapies, you could be, know a little, just enough to be dangerous, and, I, I, just, to do no harm, I would encourage people to take, take an MDR training if they want to, want to do EMDR, but to practice the EMDR techniques, to teach the butterfly hug, to teach [00:10:00] people how to calm down and self soothe without the reprocessing portion that you really need a therapist for, you could teach the, the EMD or the, the bilateral stimulation techniques without the reprocessing component.

Chris Langley: Wow. I mean, it sounds like in the last 12 years, you've had a very extensive training and experience. I mean, what, what is it that you most find most fulfilling about working with people who are going through addiction and also what makes group therapy so effective?

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: Being able to, pass this on, I spend a great deal of time outside of my work, passing on, you know, what was so freely given to me, through, we'll just call it pro bono work. talk about that a little later, maybe when we're talking about the different pathways to recovery, but mine, mine involved, you know, a 12 step route, so.

You could infer from that that, you know, still sitting across the table with another person and taking them through those steps is a very important to me and to see somebody become [00:11:00] restored to wholeness is, it's priceless. So, that's a big part of it. And, the group work, I miss dearly working in addiction treatment work.

I ran a lot of groups. I would spend, Probably about 12 hours a week, nine hours in intensive outpatient and then running some aftercare groups. When I worked in treatment and so I got to know people very well when I spent nine hours a week with them in IOP. And, of the group is incredible.

peer confrontation. We would run these, what we would call open groups. So not everybody started at the same time. Some people would be getting ready to graduate and a new person would come in. they would be very further along in their stage of change. And some of those hallmarks that you see in the early stages of addiction, pre contemplation, denial, all those, tough mechanisms, those members that were further along could pull the, pull the person out of pre contemplation into contemplation.

Hearing it from a counselor or therapist is one thing, but hearing, [00:12:00] hearing it from your peer that's sitting across from you in a group is, is very powerful, so, it was very, Yeah, it's very healing, the group process and group therapy.

Chris Langley: Yeah, most definitely. Most definitely. I mentioned earlier, David, that you're the past president of WAADAC. Can you tell us about your work with NAADAC in your state and what is it about NAADAC that makes it such a great organization to be a member of?

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: So I've been involved for, about 10 years, with, with the Washington state affiliate of NAADAC, the treatment center that I first got into the field at, clinical supervisor and executive director was the current president of NAADAC when I, I, when I joined the organization, his name is Greg Bauer.

And he brought me along to these WAADAC board members I was a student member at the time and then an associate member of NAADAC. And very quickly, you know, if you show up at these service oriented commitments, people want [00:13:00] to see if you're willing to stick around and so they quickly gave me a task or a job of being the secretary and taking the minutes at the meetings and You know, quickly got me involved in the organization.

At the time, we were only meeting once a quarter. So we would meet on a Saturday morning for a few hours, four times a year. the pandemic really changed that and we went, we went to virtual, but not only that, we decided that we should meet monthly. And as we started to meet monthly, we were really able to ramp up our affiliate, amount of activity that we were doing, the amount of events and organizations that we were partnering with.

and we've done a lot of great work over the last, last ten years, and I'm really proud of the, the growth. Our board has changed, and we're still growing. We'd like to flesh out some of our committees and, some of the work we're doing, but, This is in terms of our board. You also asked about, you know, the benefits of joining NAADAC.

So, as a student, as I joined and became a part of the organization, one of my first tasks was to [00:14:00] chair the student committee, and I would take a PowerPoint presentation, some of our WAADAC swag, notebooks, pens, coffee cups, things like that, into the local colleges that were training and providing the education to become an addictions professional.

Washington and, and talk to the students about the benefits. And that could be everything from the continuing education and the webinars that you get to the discounted professional liability insurance, to the amazing networking opportunities that you get at, NAADAC conferences. And, it's a very robust organization with a lot of benefits.

Chris Langley: Yeah. Yeah, it's a, it's a pretty incredible, organisation. I'm very pleased to be a member myself and it's been lovely to meet NAADAC members, on the podcast and it's always, it's always a privilege to speak to members because they're just so committed to, to the work that, that they're doing, in their state and obviously throughout the, throughout the country as well.

So I take it you'd recommend to anyone who's considering a career in, in therapeutic [00:15:00] work to, to, to connect with NAADAC, yeah?

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: absolutely. In my EMDR work that I was talking about, become an MDREA, an MDREA member if you were a social worker. Maybe you would want to join an ASW or a part of your professional organizations or maybe the American Association or the American Counselors Association, but I consider NAADAC the premier organization for the addiction professional and and so give it a give it a year, give it a couple years of membership and it's, Not, not a huge commitment there.

The, the dues are pretty, pretty reasonable.

Chris Langley: Oh yeah. Yeah. And the conference,

the conference as well looked pretty spectacular.

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: Yeah.

Chris Langley: yeah. Were you, were you at the conference last this year or last year, should I say?

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: The Washington DC. Yes. Yes, was at Washington D.C. And I'll be in

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: Seattle or excuse me, Bellevue in 2025. We have a local conference here for NAADAC. 2025 in October will be [00:16:00] Bellevue, Washington. So you'll see a lot of us from Washington.

Chris Langley: Oh, okay. I didn't know that.

Oh, that's cool. So you'll be

taking, will you, you'll be taking a lead on that, I take it? Yeah.

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: They have their own planning committee. the past executive director, Cynthia Moreno Tuey, lives here locally and has actually just joined our board and as she has left the executive director of NAADAC role is now becoming a part of our state affiliate again and she's a consultant for NAADAC and I'm sure Cynthia will be involved in the planning and I'm sure that she may help draw some of us in too.

into the Washington state. I see the call for presentations. I am interested in actually putting in a, putting in a proposal for a presentation, maybe about EMDR and addiction, seeing if I can present in one of the breakout panels and, and educate some other professionals about the work that I do.

Chris Langley: Yeah. Have you done many presentations before at the conferences or

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: I haven't done one. This will be a first.

Chris Langley: okay.

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: [00:17:00] gotta get your feet wet sometime.

Chris Langley: That's right. That's right. Absolutely. when we first met, David, you mentioned, Workforce Summit, which sounded like a real success. Can you tell me about this and who attended the summit from your state?

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: So this is a direct partnership with our single state authority in Washington. That's the Washington Health Care Authority. The federal block grant money and the funds that trickle down to our state go to the health care authority. And they are a huge part of our workforce and have a lot of initiatives that they put out to try to develop our workforce.

And so this summit allows, A lot of the players in the state, whether it's the organization for the addiction professional like WAADAC, to also bring players like the providers, AAP, the Association for Addiction Providers, that have a number of members. WACASER, the Consortium for Addiction Educators, all of the education programs that are providing the education [00:18:00] to get your state credential.

other organizations in the community. Some of these Players don't get an opportunity to come into the same room and talk about workforce issues that they're experiencing. And everybody's issues are a little bit different. you know, the professional might be, you know, the pay's not high enough. And, the providers might be the reimbursement for an inpatient bed is not high enough.

And, course funding is a part of it, but we talk about other strategies and try to have collaborative, during that summit, we've this past year, we changed the format a little bit. We did shorter presentations. We had as many people present as possible. 30 minute kind of rapid fire up on stage talking about some of the issues from all of the different different organizations.

And then we broke out into into roundtables in the past. We've done panel discussions in the afternoon, but broke into roundtables where people can go up and ask questions if [00:19:00] they didn't get an opportunity during the. The live presentations and, and to network. So this is our third annual, we did our first one in 2022.

And, we, we continue to value the partnership with the health healthcare authority, who is our platinum sponsor and really, really allows us to make this happen. So if you're interested in doing a workforce summit, if you're listening in another state, I would, encourage you to approach your, your single state authority healthcare authority, who's, who's managing your block grant money.

And see if they would be willing to, provide a donation to, to do a summit. really, there's a lot, I know that budgets are being cut a little bit this year and it might be a little bit thinner, but, there is still a lot of funding out there and, and it's a very meaningful collaborative, to have a summit like this.

Chris Langley: Sounds very innovative. It really does to get lots of different professionals from different sectors to come and talk about what's going on and to see if you can get some [00:20:00] collaboration going as well and networking as well, which is very, very important in this sector. It really is. So, so do you don't know of any other states that are doing this?

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: Not particularly summits.

I don't now about too many summits. I know that some states that have more active affiliates are doing sort of state conferences

Chris Langley: Okay.

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: more of a having a multi day state conferences where they're probably talking about, you know workforce and having other So as we grow our attempt to have a state conference or you know, a WAADAC state State State conferences.

We've kind of started with this one day summit and would like to try to expand that into a, you know, a weekend.

Chris Langley: So.

so with, with it being 2025, what, what, what future, what plans have you got for this year? What would you like to see for WAADAC?

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: Well, speaking for myself, I can talk about a few things. Our board just had our January board meeting this last Wednesday, and we're talking about goals. Still, we're in that [00:21:00] process and have a couple, Ad hoc subcommittees that have just formed to talk about goals for our, our website. we're really looking to rehire.

We had a great social media web assistant. We had the benefit of being able to pay somebody to help us with some of the of our website and sending out our constant contact blasts and putting together great flyers for us. And, so we'd like to find a new social media web assistant again, but we would like to continue to do some of the things that we're doing.

Sort of this, rinse and repeat. You know, a fourth annual summit. That would be something that I would like to do. And I was mentioning Cynthia who just joined our board as our workforce development subcommittee chair. Cynthia would, I would, would also agree that it's important to keep that relationship going with the, with a single state authority.

but continue to sponsor some of the amazing conferences that we also contribute to. the Association of Addiction Providers does a spring conference here in Linwood, Washington, that we like to [00:22:00] sponsor every year, the AAP conference. And then also a very long standing conference called Camp out at the base of Mount Rainier.

It's a youth focused for youth counselors, but I went as somebody who doesn't work with a lot of youth and still found it very meaningful, but an experiential. Out in the wilderness, counselor camp where counselors get together and can get continuing education and, yeah, so we love to sponsor counselor camp every year.

Chris Langley: So you've got some big plans for this year. Just keep growing.

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: Talking, still

Chris Langley: Yeah.

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: so I don't want to speak out of turn. We're still, we're still forming plans for 2025.

Chris Langley: Yeah. I'd just like to come back to you a little bit more, David. So, you're clearly very involved in this, you know, in this field. I mean, what other committees are you involved in?

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: Well, since I've joined the board, I was on the student committee. I've done some ad hoc work. We've done bylaws, you know, revising our [00:23:00] bylaws on the affiliate, our membership committee. I've done a little bit of work for. But as I said, our board has changed a bit. We still have a lot of, we still have a lot of opportunity for people to join and head committees.

would love to have somebody head an ethics committee. We do have a legislative committee and I've helped out with that. our legislative chair is, this organization has been hiring a lobbyist to provide us reports from Olympia during our legislative sessions. actively getting reports right now.

I'm just at one o'clock today, going to talk with, the affiliate manager from NAADAC, Haley Hartl, who has agreed to help us with our website as we don't have a web assistant social media person right now, but please check the WAADAC website in the coming weeks if you'd like to see some of those legislative reports.

at WAADAC.org there should be reports on there from from the session there's a lot going on and unfortunately there's some cuts in behavioral health going on but you can see some of the [00:24:00] interesting bills that are coming down the pipe for behavioral health in Washington and i'll talk about a few of those in a little bit with some of the other questions that Chris might have

Chris Langley: Sure. yeah, thanks for that, David. I'm just going to ask you about your state and kind of, how is Washington State coping with the pandemic? Sadly, the opioid crisis, as well as helping those suffering from addiction, has there been much progress, would you say, since this fentanyl, um, catastrophe we seem to be going through?

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: There, there is, is progress. I mean, you can see it from Biden's announcement on the lower opioid overdose deaths. I really think getting the Narcan out into the community and opioid reversal drugs has helped make an impact on those overdose deaths. there's a lot of work that still could be done and there's a lot of interesting programs that not only Washington State but the City of Seattle and some of the concentrated areas that the deal with this, the heaviest are taking.

[00:25:00] partner is also a social worker and working on the front lines in a, in a responder capacity. City of Seattle developed a third leg of public safety, and you might find this interesting with your background in, you know, criminal justice, but instead of sending police and fire out on these low priority calls, they're sending out designated crisis responders.

These are professionals that have knowledge of addiction and mental health, and my, my partner is a, a peer, Peer specialists. And so it has that lived experience too. But, instead of seeing fire and police that maybe don't have the training or maybe are need to be utilized and hire priority calls, they're sending out responders that are dispatched through 911.

It's a very interesting program. And there's not a lot of, a lot of cities that are doing it, but they can offer people services. They can ask them what they need. there's, there's a lot of interesting approaches. of the disappointing parts that I see, and I was talking about those legislative bills, is you'll see a bill that's been introduced to, to penalize the possession of fentanyl.[00:26:00]

while we've done great, great work decriminalizing in some of these states, you may be living in a state where, of course drugs are still penalized pretty heavily, we were seeing a lot of progress with maybe people getting into and being referred to treatment. so we've now seen, you know, reintroduction of, Of legislation that may be taking us a step back towards, you know, criminalization and penalization.

And there's a lot of pathways to recovery and some people come in through the criminal justice system and through jail. I mean, that's, that's my story.

I value those interventions and taking those interventions away as sometimes That's the intervention that somebody needs to get into recovery.

But yeah, so we're making progress. We're coping in the best, I think, in the best way that we can and of going back and forth between a more, you know, penalized route and the more sort of harm, harm reduction route

of the opioid crisis.

Chris Langley: That's great to know that the police are actually [00:27:00] accepting help from professionals and seeing it as a health thing and not a criminal justice thing necessarily. Obviously there are still laws associated with, you know, illegal drug use, but the fact that you can co work with police. Is, that, that, that's great to hear and it's wonderful hear that Washington is, is accepting this 'cause I've not heard of many states that are doing that. Something I used to do previously back in the uk and it's, I've always been a strong believer in joint working with the police and with, drug services for sure. I'd just like to ask you what your opinion is, David, and why do you think this, the country is going through a crisis of addiction and what would you like to see to being done to help this perhaps? Mm-hmm

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: I think that there is, There's a lot of access. We live in a society that promotes the use of drugs and alcohol. there's, there's there's an appetite. We have sort of an [00:28:00] insatiable appetite for drugs and alcohol. I saw a stat a while ago that was about 90 percent of the world's Hydrocodone was sold here in the United States.

And I would venture to say that we're probably not in a lot more pain than other places in the world, but we do have an insatiable appetite for, for drugs and alcohol changing the way that we feel or not feeling. And we are dealing with a lot of really difficult stuff in our country. And, I think that there's a, there's a lot, a lot that could be said there.

I think that the strategies that we're using to respond to some of this too is maybe not exactly the right strategies. I'm a big fan for the, the work that we've been doing around opioids, but I would like to see that sort of opened up for the addiction crisis, not just the opioid crisis, but we know that very often it's not just one single drug that someone is addicted to, where there's, one addiction, there is, you know, multiple polysubstance use, there's [00:29:00] xylazine, there's Xanax, there's cannabis, there's, there's heroin, there's methamphetamine and cocaine and, Sometimes when we earmark money just for, for opioid response, it sometimes might do a disservice to being able to treat, to treat everything.

And, yeah, so I think there's a combination of things. There's, there's easy access, there's sometimes the response, there's that, that stigma that, that is still there around it. there's, there's a multitude of factors there.

Chris Langley: Why do you think in this day and age that stigma of addiction and mental health is still such a big issue given what's going on in the world now with addiction?

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: I would think that it's lack of understanding.

Of those myths. It's the, it's the choice. It's willpower. It's some of those old ideas and old ways of thinking that I don't think have been heavily, heavily [00:30:00] challenged, you know, people getting up and speaking about their experiences with recovery.

And it's very hard to describe to somebody who hasn't lost that, you know, that power of choice. How somebody, how that choice area of the brain gets so gravely impacted that the, the decision making is, is so impaired that the person really doesn't have much of a choice in, in that matter. So I think it's some of the myths, I think that, just what I was talking about with the criminalization, that, there's still like, if I come out and talk about this, I could be penalized.

That keeps people kind of in the shadows and in the dark. So, confusing when we have a lot of different camps on this and, I think that there's still, still a lot of work to be done, around that with addiction. And mental health is a little bit of the same way, but it's a, it's a bit different.

It's the, if, you know, if you're struggling, then you must be crazy, you know, or. That's just for if you're [00:31:00] getting access to care. That's that's for crazy people if you're seeking mental health and I think we've done a really great job of normalizing therapy and getting help for a lot of people struggle with anxiety and depression and I think we you know addiction is not far behind

some of that stigma advocacy helps, too Advocacy is a big part, you know, advocating for better laws.

Addiction professionals are probably overworked and underpaid. It's very hard to mobilize and go down to Olympia and to advocate. If you go down there and see what N. A. S. A., N. A. S. W. and the social workers are doing, you'll see a lot of people in their N. A. S. W. shirts, but you might see only a handful of addiction professionals.

So, think some of the, some of the work, too, could be It could be done on an advocacy standpoint just as far as how well we're mobilizing and advocating for better laws.

Chris Langley: I like that. I like that idea most definitely. It's [00:32:00] things are progressing but very slowly. But compared to where we were maybe in the 80s, it's, we have moved the needle a little bit on addiction which is, which is good. But as you said we've still got a very, very long way to go. But, but yeah, but it's having professionals like your good self doing the good work that is really helping, that's for sure. last couple of questions. I ask all my guests this because I get a really interesting and varied answer, but can you tell me what your opinion of harm reduction is and how it can play a role in recovery?

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: I've shared a little bit about myself and alluded to kind of where, where I come from from, my personal, my personal path to recovery through, through abstinence and 12 step recovery and, Being able to meet people where they at, where they're at is extremely important. And I was at a place that, that, that took hold for me.

It was a path that made sense for me, but it's not necessarily a reality or a path with the power, how powerful [00:33:00] drugs are nowadays for, for everyone. And, being able to meet someone where they're at and give them what they need. And, well, Harm reduction and in terms of, you know, opioid replacement or there's a lot of opinions, opinions on that.

And I think a lot of the research and the way that some of those drugs were developed was for short term stabilization and management. be really disheartening to see somebody after just a couple years of an opioid addiction get on an opioid replacement drug for 10 years or 20 years or more.

But it's really hard to contend with those stories when you hear somebody saying that, you know, methadone or suboxone, you know, saved my life and to see somebody living well. So think that there's room for all of it in the arena. And, you know, I guess my personal hope is that people are able to use those routes to get to a place where [00:34:00] they're You know, healthy enough where they might not have to lean on some of the harm reduction methods anymore.

Some of those methods that they might have had to use early on, they're able to, you know, make that bridge and, and kind of step to shore over here. but for any of you that are listening that have maybe, you know, I don't want to, this is my own bias or my own, my

Chris Langley: That's fine. Yeah,

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: you know, everybody has their own path with that.

And a lot of the times I think, Sometimes people are ill advised or, I mean, being under the appropriate doctor care, you know, can be really important as well. So,

Chris Langley: I agree with everything you just said, obviously. But, no, thank you very much for that. last, last real question, David, do you, do you have a message for anyone who's listening to this podcast who is going for an addiction? What would you like to say to them of

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: I'd like to say not to give up. If you've tried, tried this multiple times, know, the fall down [00:35:00] eight, get up nine, you know, that there is, there is hope there. Treatment does work. Finding the right help and the right treatment is, is sometimes difficult. Finding the right people to help along the way.

Sometimes it's about getting in front of the right people at the right time. but I guess my hope for you is that any of those obstacles or blocks that are preventing you from getting the help or the care that you need, that those could be removed so that you could find that you could find yourself again.

You could find that authentic clarity and, and those feelings of, you know, powerlessness and hopelessness and all those things that that are blocking you right now might be removed. So. my hope for anybody is that you don't give up and that, and that you know that recovery is possible regardless of the situation or the circumstance that you're in.

Chris Langley: I love that. Find yourself again. I love that. That's,

that's, that's wonderful. last question. Can you tell our listeners how to best to contact you and to find your service online?

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: You [00:36:00] could go to our website, at www.Sadlerbridgeswellnessgroup.com. You could email me, at sadlerbridgeswellnessgroup.com. If you go to under our website and click on my, on my image there, it will take you to my psychology today profile.

It gives you some more specific information about a phone number that you can call, or an email that you could send if you wanted to reach out to me directly.

Chris Langley: Well, David, thank you so much for your time today. I know you've been incredibly busy and I really appreciate you taking the time out to speak to us today. And it's been fascinating to hear about your career and what's going on in your state and what's going on with WAADAC and, you know, let's hope 2025 is just going to continue with the success.

So thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it.

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: Thank you very much, Chris. I appreciate you and what [00:37:00] you're doing here and all the podcasts and interviews that you're completing and, and the mission that you have towards, know, taking this to legislator and making impactful change through capturing the voices and the stories of people that are working on the frontline.

So, really appreciate you as well in the, in the meaningful work that you're doing. So thanks for inviting me on today.

Chris Langley: No, I really appreciate it. Thanks so much, David.

David Woldtvedt LICSW SUPD: Yeah.

Do, do, do, do, do.