Ep46 Substance Use Disorder Treatment Hitting a Recovery Home Run

Ep46 Substance Use Disorder Treatment Hitting a Recovery Home Run

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

[00:00:02] Chris Langley: Welcome to Addiction Recovery Place Podcast, the podcast championing addiction treatment professionals around the world. I'm your host Chris Langley. I'm very pleased to introduce today's guest, Dori Haddock, the CEO of Natural State Recovery Centers in North Little Rock, Arkansas.

Welcome to Addiction Recovery Place Podcast, Dori. It's great to have you with us today.

[00:00:22] Dori Haddock: Thanks for having me.

[00:00:23] Chris Langley: I really appreciate you spending your quality time to come and talk to me today about the wonderful work that you're doing in your state. We'll just get started with the first question. Can you tell me about yourself and your journey to become the CEO?

[00:00:36] Dori Haddock: Sure, I'll try to give you the condensed version of it. grew up in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and this is important because I went on to play softball at a small junior college right out of high school. When I was there, I was diagnosed with diabetes at the age of 19 and started deciding that there's a lot of people that helped me along my journey of a life changing illness and became real interested in the field of social work.

And that's how I started going down that path. And so I got my undergraduate in social and my master's degree in social work. And it really came from A long line of healthcare professionals being social workers. That helped me navigate being 12 hours away from home playing softball with this new insulin dependent Diabe diabetes, at the age of, 18. So it was, definitely a journey. that is while I was there trying to figure out what my path is gonna look like. I went to school, got my degree in social work, with the intention of going into medical, social work to help others, and along the way started working with children, six and under, doing some therapy with those kids and common denominator between everything I've ever done, whether it was kids six and under or working in therapeutic foster care as a therapist or a clinical director, the common theme was substance use disorder in those homes.

And I really started, accidented upon it about 20 years ago and started working in the field of substance use. At the time it was addiction treatment, we're trying to change some of the language that we use to prevent stigma. And so I started a company, I worked for a company named Bradford Health for 14 years and started the first intensive outpatient here in Arkansas for that company 14 years ago. so I was with them going from, Started our first outpatient there, so we went to, added intensive outpatient, moved on to add a partial hospitalization, and then we eventually collaborated with a local hospital to a partnership with them where we opened a detox residential IOP, PHP, and outpatient, all within inside that acute care hospital. It was a challenge and exciting, but around that same time we at Bradford decided to go a different direction and through some conversations with where we were headed in the state of Arkansas. We pulled out of that facility and at that time I was already in communication with Natural State Recovery Centers, which is local and they saw my vision for where we could go because it was theirs, but they needed somebody to take the helm as they had been, their last CEO had been gone for a couple years. so they brought me on board to come in and take, it to, as we said, we're taking their baby from high school to college. and so that's what happened. And I've been with Natural State for, right at four months now.

[00:03:27] Chris Langley: Wow. Congratulations. That seems a pretty, pretty extensive journey you've been on. And, The fact that you're able to, work at a local recovery centre to where you're living, that's, pretty cool. congratulations about that. I've been looking at your website and you do some pretty extensive work with your clients.

So can you tell us about the three levels of care that you provide?

[00:03:47] Dori Haddock: Sure. So it starts with, inpatient in our facility in North Little Rock, we have detoxification. So we do a three to five day medical detox. We have 24 hour nursing care, where they step down to our residential, where they can typically stay between 20 to 30 days there. In residential, they get at least three hours of group a day by a licensed master's clinician. we do the multidisciplinary team approach there, where we also have peer support recovery specialists coming in. We have yoga three times a week. They do exercise the other two days a week. we just recently bought two dwarf goats, and so now we have little goats. Yapping and yelling at us, and that's been a real exciting thing for the patients go look at.

We're not doing like pet therapy or yoga or anything. It's just having them on campus has been a fun thing. We have nursing, like I said, nursing care, peer support, counselors and training. We have all of our mental health techs and say about 85 percent of our employees are in recovery themselves. And after residential, they step to our outpatient location, which is actually in Little Rock, Arkansas, where we have partnered with two sober living homes, as well as one that we own, we offer partial hospitalization, intensive outpatient, and then we've just started an outpatient to provide individual group medication assisted treatment for after the patients have gone through our continuum of care. piecing it together with just detox residential and outpatient We can get 90 days of treatment for the patient But then we're allowed to follow them indefinitely in the clinic part As well as like I said, we've partnered with a couple sober livings We own a sober living ourselves And so a lot of the patients that are impartial hospitalization IOP are actually residing in one of those recovery housing.

[00:05:30] Chris Langley: So it sounds like you've got a very extensive, level of care. So you do a lot of aftercare as well. So someone leaves your service and they still get indefinite care

Wow. So you offer it

[00:05:41] Dori Haddock: They've made those connections and they can stay in there and we know that patient and real helpful if they're having a return to use or having any issues, then we already have our eyes on them and we can help get them the help they need.

[00:05:52] Chris Langley: most definitely. do you work with family members as well? Yeah.

[00:05:55] Dori Haddock: We do, this time we don't have a family program, but it is something we are in the process of 2025 to develop and create. Nobody really is doing anything with families in our state, and it's, such a key component to it. And when I say doing anything with them, real intensive, like an actual program that's geared towards that family to walk alongside that recovery journey with their loved ones.

[00:06:18] Chris Langley: Yes, most definitely, So we've been in the post for three to four months now, Dori. What have, been some of the challenges that you've encountered just in this very short space of time that you've been in post?

[00:06:29] Dori Haddock: So obviously, commercial insurance is always a challenge for us. you're, We are, a for profit organization and we take all of your major carrier commercial insurances. And so we do struggle with the reimbursement rates that are in Arkansas are about 60 percent less than they are across other states with some higher expectations and regulations of what need to be acquired.

So that's always a challenge. that's been a challenge since I've been in this field through some of that trying to get to the key decision makers in your Blue Cross Blue Shields, your Ambetters, your Cignas to get them to understand, to provide what we really need to work with. We need a little bit more money. Um, think for Natural State Recovery specifically, what I inherited was, only could access calls or admissions Monday through Friday from 8 to 5. And as we know, substance abuse is not a Monday through Friday activity. so I've actually changed that already. We're now answering phones 24 7.

We, have changed the admissions process to 7 days a week. so that was a big part of it, and we also increased our programming. I noticed, as a clinician, I look at running this organization from a clinical perspective and mindset. we had a lot of downtime for the patients, and so we changed that by adding different groups to it, different activities to make sure that they were engaged all day long and doing something so that they were productive. Not letting the mind wander in those early stages of recovery. so the challenges have been access to care, I think, for our patients, really. It's just the phone calls, you go online and fill out a website application that's seven pages long. it's gonna do a seven page application on a website. We have a new website Completely different website. We've revamped it. The branding, the marketing, the recognition of what Natural State really is and what a really cool company it is because we're local, we're here, we're centrally located in Arkansas. I want to highlight that in our websites and marketing and outreach and all that we're doing. the main, things have been access to care, getting the patients admitted 24 7, knowledge about what we do across the state, not just in Little Rock.

I think that's a good start.

[00:08:43] Chris Langley: yeah, that's an exceptional.

[00:08:45] Dori Haddock: For four months.

[00:08:46] Chris Langley: That's amazing. so since you started, you've completely changed your, your referral process. Program. So someone could just phone up 24 seven and speak to you, speak to a member of your team. So have you seen a bigger uptake in, people accessing your services in the short space you've been there?

[00:09:02] Dori Haddock: Yes, we've actually doubled our admissions, and we have decreased our AMA [Against Medical Advice] rate by about 23%.

[00:09:10] Chris Langley: Congratulations. Wow.

[00:09:13] Dori Haddock: I attribute that to many different things and the main thing that I can Inherited, that's the most important, is my team. They have been an incredible team I got when I came on board that really do care about our patients and their willingness to just get behind me and support the decisions that I'm making to make all these changes in a very brief period of time.

Is general people don't like change? So I'm trying very hard to be slow and steady about it But anybody that has met me for more than five minutes knows that's not my really my jam.

[00:09:45] Chris Langley: Yeah, I could, tell, I could definitely tell. So what can you tell us about some of your staff members? Cause you said that they've been very supportive of you and as a new CEO, that must be very reassuring for yourself as well. So can you tell us about some of your team members?

[00:10:00] Dori Haddock: Yeah, sure. I have our Director of Quality Assurance. Her name is Nicole she is really the all things She does everything over there, and she's really herself and Janie have been holding the fort down for the past two years, and Nicole does not like the spotlight. She'll probably be very mad at me for even mentioning her name on this podcast, but we would not be where we are without her.

She is, She actually lives on site, so she's there throughout the week. She goes home to her home. It's about an hour away from here on the weekends, but so she's always working. She's making sure that we're staying on top of things from a quality assurance perspective, that we're getting our insurance documentation done. And she's just great. And then JD, who was serving as the interim director between the last CEO and myself, he's really responsible for all of our growth and looking at opportunities. He's our director of strategic initiatives, but he's also over our facilities management, our culinary staff, and our transportation staff.

those two have really been They've been keeping this afloat for the past two years, and as we joke, JD started with Natural State Recovery Centers from the day that it opened, back in, I think it was 2014, and and he also lives on campus, as he was responsible for getting this old school, redone and, retrofitted to be a treatment center, and he's phenomenal.

he's got a lot of energy and a lot of, Just positive, vibes, I guess is the best way to say it. he's the one that I was joking with saying, I'm taking your baby and we're going to take her to college. Cause it's very difficult when you put your heart and soul into the company and Somebody new comes in and says, hey, I think we should do A, B, C, and D. and JD's been really good about being able to acknowledge that these are all really positive things and he'll tell me all the time, I've been trying to do that for two years. So I think really well aligned team. The three of us work really well together. like I said, most of our staff is percent of them, I think are in recovery, long term recovery themselves. And so to point out one person that it's doing just Great work would be really challenging and that's a good problem to have. but we have some great psychiatric nurse practitioners that are, we have them seven, five days a week, eight hours a day at both our outpatient and our inpatient. our medical director is a double, a dually board certified addictionologist as well as a psychiatrist. all of our techs, the ones that do the day in and day out, they're the ones that with the patients all day, they're, they just come from a place of care and compassion and that's, you can't teach that. and to me, that was, it's so great, as an example, we had a patient come in the other day that was so impaired, they could barely walk, and I've worked at facilities before that it was like, we can't help them, send them to the ER, go, wait until they sober up a little bit, and I look outside and three of my staff members are sitting on the curb out front while he's smoking a cigarette, telling him how glad that he, they are that he was there.

And I just got all warm and fuzzy because, like I said, you can't teach that kind of thing to somebody. You either get what we're doing or you don't. So

[00:13:12] Chris Langley: Wow. It sounds like you've got the A team.

[00:13:15] Dori Haddock: I think so.

[00:13:16] Chris Langley: Yeah, it really does. And it must be, such a weight off their shoulders, knowing that they've got, genuinely good leadership as well, where you're going to take your service to in the right direction. That's great to hear. It really is.

So you've been there for four months. What do you, what are your future plans for natural, the next 12 months, next two years? What do you, see coming?

[00:13:38] Dori Haddock: I'm the mindset of go big or go home. And Arkansas is really a, again, I think this goes back to my softball days. I was a pitcher and I was like, go all the time, and it has not left my body, even though I've quit playing a long time ago. we are centrally located in the state of Arkansas.

we are definitely a ton of resources in our state. we're a little bit behind the times as well as what traditional treatment looks like. my goal is we have in North Little Rock, we have a 54 bed, facility. So we have the capability of 54 patients for our residential. idea is to get us full, we have a lot of room for growth.

We have a lot of buildings that are not being used, so hopefully we can continue to expand the amount of patients that we can have our centrally located location. And then I would like to see Additional php and iops in the four corners of our state and then some at some point would love to even figure out a way to reach our rural communities, even if that's through telehealth, where we have them in a spot and zooming into what we're doing at some of our physical locations. I don't want to give too much of my secrets away, but it's, so to me, it's just really, how do we provide access to care and quality care for the Arkansans? Honestly, be a treatment center that people in other states want to look to and say, Hey, this is where you go. This is where you go to get good quality care. so that's my big goal. I have a couple other areas of offsprings that I would like to specialize in. Family is one of them. it's huge. so that's just a little bit of what I have planned.

[00:15:23] Chris Langley:

It's going to be a busy 2025 for you. That's for sure.

[00:15:28] Dori Haddock: everybody's tired of me saying, just wait till 2025, because I came in August and there's only, so I'm really providing some structures, providing some organizational hierarchy, providing some systems in place, an example, we didn't have any way to track incoming calls or have a, I think it's a CRM, I always call it, I always call it the wrong thing. We have that now. We've changed our website. We have a new admissions process. We're tracking our data now, which is going to help drive outcomes for us, but also track the outcomes. Then also let us know. That helps me come back to the Blue Crosses of the world and better and say, hey, look what we're doing.

These are our outcomes, based metrics, that kind of stuff. So that's the goal of I keep saying it 2025, we're going to start this because we've, we're going to just put 24 to sleep and move forward from here.

[00:16:22] Chris Langley: Wow, that sounds amazing. It really does. So congratulations on everything you've achieved so far. It's

[00:16:27] Dori Haddock: Thank

[00:16:27] Chris Langley: wonderful to hear. You mentioned, Arkansas is a little bit difficult sometimes maybe to work in the state around for addiction services. So how is, your state dealing with the opioid crisis?

It's just wreaking havoc across the nation,

[00:16:40] Dori Haddock: I would actually say that's probably the one area that Arkansas has done really well in. We have, when I started, we have one of the top peer support specialist programs in the country. Honestly, it's a put together by Jimmy McGill and our director at the time was Kirk Lane, our drug director, and they really got behind what we need for Arkansas. They are no longer in those roles now. In fact, Kirk Lane is now over the Arkansas Opioid Partnership. And so what they've done is they've gotten some of those settlement dollars and they're disbursing it across company or across our state with all falling with that opiate nexus of like how do we prevent overdose, how do we prevent death, and so there's several million ton, I think it might be a couple hundred million dollars out there in Arkansas for opiate between our Attorney General Settlement dollars and our Arkansas opioid partnership agreement as well.

So the peer support model is a three tiered model out here So as you get your peer in training and then you have to do so many hours and so much curriculum based Evidence based curriculum to get to your peer support specialist to get to your supervisor to be a trainer So it is a three tiered program, which is the how all of us clinicians have to do.

We have to get our masters and then we have to get supervision and then we have to get licensed. And so I feel like it models a little bit about that, even though they're not clinical. having that peer support coupling with our treatment centers is huge. when I started the program in St.

Vincent Hospital, we were the first treatment center in the state to employ peer support specialists on our own dollar and not through grant money. And we incorporated them as part of our multidisciplinary team. I think the results were outstanding. We had buy in from our therapists, we had buy in from the nursing staff, the peer support bought in to the clinical side of it. I think you can't live in a silo. Your peer support has to support your clinicians have to support your peer support. And I think Arkansas has done a really good job of that, in embracing our peer supports and putting them in all kinds of different aspects. part's there.

We have naloxone boxes, or they're called a naloxone, in all of the colleges, and I believe they're in most of the high schools across the state. they have literally a place that you can go and get naloxone if something were to happen.

[00:19:00] Chris Langley: Narcan. Yep.

[00:19:01] Dori Haddock: so I think there's been a lot of information out there and lots of billboards that are like, Don't run. Don't flee. You're not gonna get arrested if you drop somebody off that has an overdose and so lot of education on that.

[00:19:15] Chris Langley: that seems pretty progressive.

[00:19:17] Dori Haddock: That is. I was very impressed with our state, to be

[00:19:20] Chris Langley: Wow.

[00:19:20] Dori Haddock: We have lots of other, lot of other state leaders coming in and looking at what we're doing with our peer recovery model and all of that.

[00:19:28] Chris Langley: Wow. I didn't expect that answer. So congratulations to your stage and your governor's clearly doing a good job, which is, great. would you, still, I just want to ask your opinion about something, Dori, because in today's world, it's quite disheartening that stigma around addiction and mental health can have, can still discourage someone from wanting to enter treatment.

Why do you think this continues to be the case, especially opioid crisis?

[00:19:54] Dori Haddock: I, my theory on that, and I do want to clarify something real quick. A lot of our, a lot of the movement that we've had with our opioid epidemic has really come from our drug director and the director of peer support services. We've been supported by Asa Hutchinson and by Governor Sanders. This was all has been a long going effort for them.

And so I'll make sure that, Kirk Lane, Jimmy McGill and that crew get credit for what they've done because it's been very instrumental in where we're at. In fact, to go through, they started changing the slogans to stop the stigma. a lot of what we've gone around and have done is stop the stigma, stop using these words. redoing our website right now, and instead of addiction treatment, we're putting substance use disorder treatment. it's just little things of changing that name and those concepts. think for a long time the world was brought up in a, that drunk or the addict was the poor home, the poor guy that's walking down the street that is disheveled and doesn't look good.

that's your town drunk, right? It used to be and then, I hate these words, or the addict was that one that was on guess what? Like the opioid epidemic is heroin too. And so I think it's just this stigma for a long time of people though. Those aren't our people. I can't tell you how many times when I've gone to talk about doing new things that people yeah We don't want those people lobby.

We don't want those people in our building It's like those people are here already and probably working for you and you don't know it And so I think it's just not only fear, right? You're fearful of somebody that's an active addiction or active use is already scared enough to stop And if that one person says something like Oh, you're an addict or you're a drug, and it's just oh, I don't want to be that person.

So I'm gonna try to do it on my own and, God forbid anybody pay attention to the science behind addiction, is what we all need to be educated on and why this really is a disease.

[00:21:58] Chris Langley: it ,

[00:21:59] Dori Haddock: sure if I answered the

[00:22:00] Chris Langley: No, you've, answered that. You've answered that perfectly, Dori, because it does seem that things are moving progressively forward towards a more softer tone around addiction, which is, lovely to hear. Still got a long way to go yet, obviously, things are moving in the right direction, which is, good to hear.

So thank you for that.

[00:22:19] Dori Haddock: The other thing, one of the other slogans that we're seeing in our peer community is recover out loud. And so lots of shirts that say recover out loud, lots of t shirts because so traditionally your traditional 12 step programs are about an anonymity and that's great but we've got a lot of people now that like I want my story out there because it might help somebody else.

And so I do think that there's some shift in that as well.

[00:22:43] Chris Langley: Yeah, that's pretty powerful. Recover out loud. I like that. I like that. That's, great. I'm just going to speak about your, career and, What have you done in the past, Dori? Because you spoke at the NAADAC conference last year. how were you invited and what, was it, what was the, what was your presentation about?

I'd love to tell our audience.

[00:23:06] Dori Haddock: So we had, we have a local NAADAC representative here in Arkansas that was doing our board, certifying our peer support. So we're doing some of that and, the person that was over that here in Arkansas. Was like, hey, it'd be great if we talked about or we did what information how I incorporate a peer into a clinical setting.

And so our presentation was on Incorporating peer support in a clinical setting. that's pretty simple.

[00:23:34] Dori Haddock: of how do we do it? How do we get the buy in from side because it was still fairly new so it was Mainly about doing, bringing a peer model that's traditionally just go out help that person to how do we incorporate them in treatment and still maintain the rules of a peer and the ethical guidelines of a peer, because they do have very different roles and can do things that a therapist cannot, as far as long term relationships with that peer and helping that peer, that's what the presentation was about. .So

to submit a proposal, we

got accepted.

[00:24:12] Chris Langley: congratulations on that. That's great. Because you're obviously an NAADAC member. if someone was What would you say to someone if they're considering going into this field of work and they were considering becoming an NAADAC member? Would you say it's a good idea?

Would you say it's a good option to

[00:24:28] Dori Haddock: I think there's a lot of resources that NAADAC can offer. any time, it offers some credit. There's so much information out there about addiction, and if you just start Googling things or you start looking at it, you're going to get any answer to support it. but I think with organizations like NAADAC and your local chapters that are like, here is the Arkansas Alcohol and Drug Abuse Council, working together, we're going to get a little bit more information about top notch.

You have access to a lot of great resources. Conferences and trainings online, in person. They help with credentialing. So I think it just adds a little bit of professionalism and some, what's the word? Credibility. Credibility to what you and your organization are doing if they're getting in line with it.

[00:25:14] Chris Langley: It's a fantastic organization. I've been learning a lot about it since I've been doing these podcasts. It's lovely to hear and everyone speaks very highly about it. that, that's great to hear. last couple of questions, Dori. I ask all of my guests these questions because I get some really interesting, varied answers, but can you tell me your opinion of harm reduction, how it can play a role in recovery?

[00:25:36] Dori Haddock: That's a tricky one. Gosh, so I can tell you I, I started in the mindset of If our clients, patients, could manage their use in the first place, then they wouldn't be in our treatment centers. That's, that was what my mindset used to be beforehand. It's very much could manage how much you're drinking, or you could stop just using, which in my mind, that's what harm reduction was. Until I've done some more research, and I went to a conference not long ago where Harm reduction is like, how do we get our patients into the right frame of mind to be able to benefit from treatment or whatever that long term recovery looks And so what I mean by that is, I had a that came out to a conference I was in Florida for, and talked about how he was running a program with unsheltered Individuals that they let them move into their housing while still using. And they, result was that once they had those basic needs met, air, water, safety, food, that then they were like, hey, to stop using. I want to, start doing this. And so this program really was geared towards stepping that down and eventually getting these individuals into recovery.

And your basic needs aren't being met, then. You're not going to benefit from some things. And so I think that's, that was the first mindset switch for me of harm reduction does have a place, I think. Do I, we would if you're going to be using safe needles, I think a lot of people say, Oh, that's going to give them a permission to use. using anyway. It's not, nobody asks permission to go in and, use safe needles. It's the same mindset when Narcan first came out. There was a lot of people concerned about it because it was like, aren't people just going to go get high now and hope they overdose and just have their Narcan on hand?

And maybe, but hey, we still get to save their lives. So who are we to judge? So I definitely think it has its place. Have we fine tuned to that? I'm not sure. We certainly haven't here in Arkansas. I think it's very still that. You have your harm reduction side of the coin and then you have your. Abstinence based side of the coin and it's getting those conversations and the people at the table to a dialogue about what really How do we meet the patient where the patient is? How I'm a diabetic My course of treatment is not the same as every diabetic that's out there and everything that's working for me does not mean it's Going to always work for every single person that gets a diabetic disease So that's how I look at treatment, too, is that everybody has different circumstances in their life and all those aspects the Maslow's hierarchy of needs, if you're going to go through that. But, I think we have a long way to go, and I think if people could provide a little bit more research and information to people about what harm reduction really means. I heard somebody say the other day, harm reduction's a lot like if somebody was suicidal, telling them to find a building to jump off of and at first I was like, oh, yeah, that's that makes sense That's a great way to put it and then as I started thinking it through it again It was okay.

I really need to do a little bit more a little more research myself.

[00:29:03] Chris Langley: No, I like that. That's a great answer. Thank you for that. do you have a message for anyone who's listening to this podcast who is going through an addiction, Dori?

[00:29:11] Dori Haddock: I think Probably like the best gift you could give yourself is recovery like you are worth it you know people don't like the symptoms of this disease. Not the person, and I think as soon as we can get somebody to understand that the things that you've done during active addiction or active use is not who you really are, and that person that had morals and values and all those things that people say you lose in addiction, there.

And don't give up on yourself. Continue to seek treatment. Listen your treatment providers. I think, this is not a buffet that you pick and choose which parts of recovery you really like. if you see something that's had long term recovery, follow their direction and do what they're saying to do and listen to your health care professionals because they really do know what you're doing. So probably just don't give up and keep You are worth it. So give it to yourself. Give yourself recovery.

[00:30:07] Chris Langley: I love that. Thank you for that. last question. Can you tell our listeners how to best to contact you and to find your service online?

[00:30:15] Dori Haddock: Yeah, sure. our facility is, actually, it's gonna be the embarrassing part. I don't totally know my own phone number because we're changing it. but our website is, www. naturalstaterecovery. com and our phone number over there is 501-319-7074 and that is, you can always also, one of those will reach out to either one of our facilities, and if it's trying to get in touch specifically with me, you can go through those numbers as well to reach out to me.

I get a lot of, it's weird when you change your name to CEO on LinkedIn how many people reach out to you and try to sell you some stuff,

[00:30:59] Chris Langley: Oh, okay.

[00:31:01] Dori Haddock: lots of, billing software. It's great, but, so yes, I would just go to our website, on there you can create a, you can go in and fill out that form for us to contact you, you can call the number and get somebody specifically there as well.

[00:31:15] Chris Langley: Thank you so much for your time today, Dori. I've really enjoyed hearing about your journey and how and the great work that you're already doing in four months is quite incredible. the level of care that you bring to your team is just, very inspiring to hear. And I'm sure people who are listening to this podcast have certainly taken something away from it.

So thank you very much for joining me today. It's been a real privilege and honor.

[00:31:40] Dori Haddock: Thank you for having me. I appreciate the opportunity

Do, do, do, do, do.