Ep45 Addiction Treatment Implicit Bias Training and Treatment Courts Reducing Recidivism

Ep45 Addiction Treatment Implicit Bias Training and Treatment Courts Reducing Recidivism

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

Chris Langley: Hi Welcome to Addiction Recovery Place Podcast the podcast championing addiction treatment professionals around the world. I'm your host Chris Langley, and I'm very pleased to introduce today's guest Larry Davis from the state of Michigan. Larry is the Treatment Court Liaison Officer for Oakland Community Health Network.

He's also a board member of the Michigan Certification Board for Addiction Professionals and also a State Certified Drug and Alcohol Counselor. Welcome to Addiction Recovery Place Podcast, Larry. It's so good to have you with us today.

Larry Davis: Thank you, Chris, for having me. I feel very privileged and blessed to be on your podcast. So thank you for having me.

Chris Langley: Thank you for joining us. I know you're incredibly busy with the work that you're doing We're gonna find out all about this today and I'm really excited because you're working in the courts Which is where it all started for me and one of my favorite bits of my work was working in the courts I'm fascinated to hear more about what you're doing So, can you tell us about yourself and your journey to becoming a treatment court duty liaison officer?

Larry Davis: absolutely, that is a question in regards to how did I get into this. It's funny because I don't think people wake up when they're a kid and be like, I want to do this when I grow up or work in drug court. So pretty much how my journey started, and I'm a believer, so really God just orchestrated all of my steps.

I became a licensed professional counselor. Ten years ago, and in that journey, trying to figure out, okay, what is it I'm going to specialize in? it's something that they really drill in your head in grad school. Find your niche. Find your specialty. I was trying some things out. Some things, I was like, That's not for me.

And, one day, I was trying to find a job. I was like, you know what, I need to try to find something. Oh, there's this, job position for inpatient for substance use. Didn't think too much about it, what really intrigued me with the position was the hiring manager at that time was like, is a great opportunity to really be able to teach people and educate and.

He had me after that because that's one of my callings is, teaching. So I was like, you know what? Why not? I got nothing to lose. you know what? That was one of the best decisions ever was taking that job because that's when I really fell in love with substance use. And just being able to just be exposed to a whole new world, and I learned so much in that field.

this just tells you how dedicated I am. When I'm focused on something, I go all in. Once I realized that, wow, I actually enjoyed this, and my first assignment was working, women's unit, and there were doubts. Oh, a guy! Good luck with that, but I loved it, and it was such a great experience. So after that, I started exposing myself to the different components of substance use when it comes to treatment.

So I worked in inpatient for a number of years. I then transitioned to do some outpatient substance use, and that was nice, because I was able to see a different component of substance use within the community. So my first step in working more in community based work. And then I also did Medicaid assisted treatment.

So I worked in a methadone clinic and that was wide opening in regards to just the different, treatment options that are available. So I learned so much within so much time. In addition to that, I was working in substance use during the height of COVID, so that was a very interesting time as well, because I'm exposed to something no one has seen before.

And on top of that, this is where we have a lot of stuff related to cries for social justice. So I was put in charge of creating an implicit bias training, and I would say that's one of proudest moments was creating that training, which was specifically designed for health care providers to educate on bias, to bring attention to racial disparities, but also using that as a platform to bring attention to disparities within, people that have addiction.

So it was just really great being able to, again, educate, right? But also drawing focus on the substance abuse community. So I did a lot of things related to that. In addition, and we'll get to this later, but, I also got certified, in a, in substance use as a certified alcohol and drug counselor, which I'll go into later in the podcast while I'm very proud of that.

and eventually that led me to my current role, which is at, Oakland Community Health Network. at Oakland Community Health Network, really proud to work there, by the way, but they are, the acronym is OCHN. But they're contracted by the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services and their focus is to be a lead provider in regards to managing, care for approximately 29, 000 Oakland County citizens at more than 400 service sites across the county.

So that kind of gives you a glimpse of what I do in regards to, One of my main focuses in my job is being contracted. So this leads into my current role as a treatment court provider. So I am contracted through Oakland Community Health Network to work within the court system. And that is what led me to my current role as a treatment court provider, which I've been at for over a year now, and it's been an amazing experience.

Chris Langley: Firstly, huge congratulations on that journey. That's, that's something else. That is, my goodness me, just hearing all the details of what you've done and what you've, you've, progressed to. It says that's quite inspiring, Larry. That really is. And kudos to your, Your tutor for suggesting this as well.

the niche. I mean you've really landed on your feet here with what you're doing You're clearly very passionate about working with your clients. I love that. I absolutely love that So so what is it in the courts that you do for your clients and your community and for that? You know when you work with judges and lawyers and what is your role?

Larry Davis: good question. I'm the type of person, I really like being led by values and principles. And, the company I work at, OCHN, I really follow what one of their principles is, which is being a guiding principle to recognizing behavioral health. and making sure that part of overall health and wellness.

That includes obviously with, different components of society. as I'd mentioned earlier, I'm assigned to working with, treatment court. I work primarily with adults and my role specifically is I'm essentially the social worker. mental health person. My job is to make sure that I am aligning mental health and substance use services to our participants.

nice about my role and my experience is that I am actually duly trained in mental health and substance use, which I know we'll get into later in the podcast with co occurring. And it's been very beneficial having training in both areas because I can do Clinical assessments for both the mental health and substance use.

So a lot of our participants, they are co occurring. So that means for those that may not know co occurring, having a mental health and having a substance disorder. but we also get some participants that only have a substance use disorder. So really it's about making sure that I do an accurate assessment.

and aligning them to the appropriate resources that's available. So this is where it's nice having that social work and mental health background, being able to work with different agencies, which I know we'll get into later. But, that's really important is making sure that they have the resources to be successful in regards to how the team works with, treatment court.

am just one component of the team. The team consists of, as you alluded to when you asked the question, it is made up of, the judge, but it's also made up of our lawyer, and it's also made up of probation officer and a peer support specialist. So all of us have a specific role, and it's great because we're covering.

Almost every component for what our participants need. my focus is obviously on the mental health component, and I work very closely with the probation officers, making sure that our participants are compliant with what they need to do in regards to their services. that's really my role. I also do crisis assessments, Things can come up and making sure that I'm available, particularly if there's, suicidal assessment that they, that needs to be done.

So that is S in essence, my role and together as an interdisciplinary team, our goal is, helping our participants, graduate our program, it can range in time, usually it's about a year, sometimes more, but helping our participants go through each phase. So they can, graduate and be a productive member of society.

Chris Langley: So you support them as they go through their treatment as well. You don't just refer them and then your participants on and then you stop working. You continue working with them throughout the whole year as well. So you've got a multi skilled team that are, wow, that's incredible. Because in the UK we don't have, we didn't have this system at all.

One of the most frustrating things I had was working with mental health teams and working in the drugs field. We never worked together. It was just not done, and this is just wonderful to hear that, people with, dual diagnosis can get the help. it sounds like you've got a very rounded experience and expert team.

Larry Davis: So here's an analogy you might appreciate, and I learned this in a conference, and it's so true. This, the treatment team that's in place at Adult Treatment Court, it almost operates as almost like a family system. The judge, doesn't matter if it's a female judge or a male judge, they're daddy.

officer is that annoying sibling that's going to tattle on you. And the therapist. The mental health treatment court liaison, we're considered mom. We're the support, but we're also considered more the safe place. So I use that analogy in illustrating that yes, my job is not just to, make sure that they go to their appropriate resources, but yes, I'm with them from beginning to end, but also being that safe space.

Maybe they don't like what the judge is sentencing them to. Maybe they're frustrated at something the probation officer said. And I can be that middleman with being able to really communicate, okay, this is what the judge is saying, this is what the probation officer is saying, but also being able just to, communicate, being able to offer that support, because absolutely, you need that support.

And that's what I like about our program. can it be tough love? Absolutely. That's part of being an adult. But on the flip side of that, it's great having that support. And I think everyone within our team does a phenomenal job with being loving and supportive. But yes, as a mental health provider, We can really delve more into that with being able to talk about emotions, and hey, it's okay to cry, and being able to encourage them, and if there's a relapse, hey, it's okay, being able to just offer words of encouragement, so yeah, it's pretty cool.

Chris Langley: It must be such a weight off, your participants, my, shoulders when they know that this service is available to them.

Larry Davis: ha!

Chris Langley: of judge's dad. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. That really does. That's, brilliant. Um, what other agencies or services do you work or liaise with outside of the court, Larry?

Do you know what other, you said you work with probation and other teams. Are there any other agencies you work with?

Larry Davis: Absolutely. so I'm really glad you, are asking this question about agencies because there's no way we could be successful with being able to have our program if we didn't have involvement within the community and the agencies that we work with. me and my brother have a saying and we like to say it all the time.

Relationships matter and a big component of this job is relationship building. We work with a variety of different providers. We meet participants where they're at. majority of our participants, they may have state funding, but, we want to make sure that we align them to the right, agency so they can get the resources that they need.

Within Oakland County, we work with three major agencies. Our go to is Easterseals Mork. they're one of our main, community mental health providers within Oakland County and they have an excellent, substance abuse outpatient program, mental health program, and they also have, a Medicaid assisted treatment program.

one of our main providers. in addition, we do work with TTI and we, their mental health agency as well as, CNS. We also work with Meridian Health Services. They provide good substance use services. So overall, it's a team and, my role is to make sure that we keep those lines of communication open.

And what's nice is, I used to work in the front lines. I worked in agency. I know how it is. I know. There's manipulation within clients. I know what it's like working with limited resources. So being able to brainstorm with our providers with management And you know just really being able to promote hey on the same team here And we want to make sure that we hold our participants accountable It's huge and I just really being able to just have that communication and It's important.

And again, building those relationships, because when relationships are built within agencies, man, can so much positive work be done.

Chris Langley: Yes. Yeah. joint work is such a vital component for the court. For, this work, that's for sure. so when, participants are in court, what are the, what are some of the sentencing options that are available to the court that you help your clients with? So if someone's looking at maybe, quite a hefty prison sentence, what can your work do to reduce that risk?

Larry Davis: Sure. and this will go into a little bit more detail when I, talk about some data that we have of our program, but our program is essentially a jail diversion program. what's nice about our program is, And I think with the state of Michigan in general is we're realizing that jail is not always the answer when it comes to addressing substance use and mental health problems.

programs like mine have been established, and word is more now getting spread to have an alternative instead of jail. And a lot of it really depends on the charges. A lot of charges that we get within our program tend to be OWI related. a lot of times, they're going to be able to be in our community.

And essentially, adult treatment court is an extended form of probation. That's really the way of looking at it. It's a privilege being out in the community, but you know what? There are still going to be expectations. You're still going to be held to certain standards and, it's making sure that you follow up on what you need to do, whether it be testing, whether it means showing up to your appointments for, your substance use treatment or your mental health treatment, just making sure all those components are met.

So to answer your question, we really take things by a case by case situation. One thing about our judges, they're very fair. and they want to make sure that they're giving our participants every opportunity to do what they need to do. And we really approached this program from an area of love, but at the same time, we want to make sure we're keeping our community safe.

So it's a very fine line. So it's really just case by case. is the best way I would answer that, sometimes we'll look at doing something called recovery weekend, which I'm a big proponent of, seeing that I come from a, residential inpatient background, I'm a big proponent of inpatient and sometimes.

Participants need a check in, maybe just a way to I need to get away from maybe the community for a little bit and do some internal digging, re establish some coping mechanisms that I maybe lost along the way, and then I can re engage back into the community. So sometimes that's a good alternative, especially for participants that are working.

We understand that. Impatient can be a hindrance in regards to people's work schedule. So we try to keep those things into account as well. Sometimes we'll add on additional community service. So we try to add on additional things where it doesn't always have to lead to jail time. But you know what, depending on the situation, sometimes it does.

Chris Langley: Of course. So you just mentioned something I've never heard of before, Larry. You said, weekend recovery.

Yep.

Thanks. Tell me, about that. That sounded interesting. That sounded like a

Larry Davis: weekend recovery, and being honest, this was something I started to learn more about as well when I started this job, but, what's nice about it is essentially if we're seeing one of our participants struggling, and, testing positive, you know what? Why don't we let them maybe do, go to inpatient, but rather than taking, devoting a full 14 days for inpatient, which can be a hindrance maybe on their family or work schedule, we'll have it just be for a weekend.

But you know what, it's going to be a concentrated weekend where it's almost like doing inpatient to the extreme, where it's going to be a lot of programming, you're on a time crunch, you're doing programming, you're doing groups. All within three days, you're going to have a treatment plan that you'll need to complete in three days.

The purpose of that is to hopefully get you realigned with, your coping skills, get you realigned with, being more aware of your triggers, out what your supports are so you can better re engage into the community. we explore that option on a case by case basis.

Chris Langley: I'm glad I asked about that. That was It's fascinating. the fact that someone, you're at that, you've got those tools available for your participants to engage in and to not affect their work. to go away at a weekend and really do some intense work as well. That's incredible. that's great to hear.

so you just mentioned about data. And so how has drug court reduced recidivism for 2023? And what are the figures looking like for this year?

Larry Davis: and very proud to share the data, with any program, there needs to be data to support the effective, the effectiveness of it. the, because we're still technically in 2024, I can't share that data, but I will share data that, we have available from last year. This, the data I'm going to share is participants that have graduated from our program.

So what we've seen is in 2023, we've reduced recidivism rates for all crime by 22 percent and for drug and alcohol offenses. By 15%.

Chris Langley: Wow, they're big numbers and that's just

it that's just in one year

Larry Davis: Yep. 2023.

Chris Langley: goodness me That's incredible.

I've never, heard of data quite as big as that for one year's, normally it's not one, two percent, maybe either way, but 15 percent as well.

Larry Davis: Yep.

Chris Langley: I mean that, that's,

wow. so what are the main drugs or substances of choice do you come across mostly in your court for your participants?

What's the main

Larry Davis: I think it's maybe similar to most states, but I would say from what I've seen, especially being in the field for as long as I have, Alcohol, opioids, when I say opioids, it could be a variety of opioids, mostly heroin, and heroin is what I see, but I would say, opioids and, alcohol are like the main two that I see on a consistent basis.

we are starting to see an uptick in marijuana, especially now that it's legal. And, we do see the, crack cocaine, we see a little bit of, hallucinogenics, but I would say majority of the, that I witness are more alcohol related.

Chris Langley: that come into court? force. I didn't know about that, has that been a recent law change or,

Larry Davis: I don't know the exact year, yeah, I don't want to, give the wrong information, but, yeah, Michigan is legal.

Chris Langley: okay. And, and how's the state coping with the opioid crisis, and especially fentanyl as well?

Larry Davis: for sure. again, I'm, not speaking for the state of Michigan, so I just want to be very clear on that. at least from what I have seen, initiatives are being put into place, especially with, More information that's been coming about and different, new stuff that's been coming out about opioid use.

Michigan is very much, providers are very much aware of it. So what I will say is, are definitely being put into place, and just really I think education is really key and I think that's great that a lot of organizations and Or just being able to really talk about, which I know we'll get to shortly, is really being able to dismantle the stigma component because that plays a big component.

that's pretty much what I would say is, there are things that are happening in the background. Nothing specific I can report at this time, but I would say that Michigan is aware and I would say, providers are moving in the right direction with being able to provide more education.

Chris Langley: Yeah, that's great to hear. That really is. Um,

I'm just going to move on and talk about, your, other work, Larry, because you're also on the board of the Michigan Certification Board for Addiction Professionals. Can you tell us about this, and how you work, and what you do for your organization?

Sounded fascinating.

Larry Davis: Sure. So that is a story. I'll just say this, I knew that substance use was a field I wanted to just devote, my career towards, one of the next steps was getting the appropriate credential. In Michigan, that would be, being certified through, MCBAP, that's the acronym for the Michigan Certification Board of Addiction Professionals, to become a Certified Alcohol Drug Counselor.

that is one of the requirements for the state of Michigan, I wanted to become certified because it's you know what? This is something that I want to be an expert in and this credential will validate it. One of the great things about, my previous work experience is that those work hours were applicable for me passing the examination.

pretty much I was in a good direction of, getting the, the job. certification. However, and this is a personal journey, that examination was tough and, I don't hide it. It was a very difficult examination and, it took me a few times to pass it. I'll just be honest about that, but when I did pass, it was this great relief.

And it was this, almost a badge of honor, but one thing I also saw was, there were people that, a, that really tried to get the credential as well, but they were having a hard time passing the examination. So that's really what encouraged me to want to get more involved on a state and local level because, has immense value, within the substance use practice.

And, I wanted to make sure that we could make the credential available for everyone. I had a lot of great coworkers that, were awesome SUD providers, but had difficulty passing the examination. that's what led me to actually want to join the board. So I was able to join the board last September.

And it was, an awesome experience. I was able to, being able to talk about my experiences, but also other people that are on the front lines. And that's one thing I feel very privileged about is, yes, I'm on the board, and the board does amazing things with being able to promote, substance abuse education to mental health providers, being able to make sure that you get the training that you need that's necessary.

Because we know this, with mental health and substance use, there is a difference, and there needs to be appropriate training for both, and with the CADC credential, it provides you that necessary education and training, so you can be an effective, trained, therapist, where you can treat both the mental health and substance use.

I just really want to be an advocate for that, and help make that credential more accessible, And I like the fact that I'm still in the, I'm still in the community and in the front lines to some degree, because I'm able to take what I hear from the front lines and report it to the board so we can be able to move forward to figure out how we can, Better meet our providers where they're at.

Chris Langley: That sounds incredible. So you join this to get trained and then you're now on the board.

Larry Davis: Go

Chris Langley: you, do

do you, have any spare time? Probably not.

Larry Davis: Yeah, that's a good question, Chris. Christmas is coming up, so I will have some downtime.

Chris Langley: Okay. All right. I'm glad to hear that at least, Larry. That's good. Wow. My goodness me. That's, that's wonderful to hear. It's great to hear about this organization that you do, and you're promoting as well. Because like you said, it's so important to be trained in both. Mental health and addiction, and I think that's just wonderful to hear that's available to experts who want to enter the field as well. Because it's clearly much needed. You mentioned the word stigma earlier, and it's something I always like to ask people, because it's such an issue for people who want to enter treatment. And why do you think it is in this day and age that stigma still is such a sticky issue? situation for people who want to just enter a service for their addiction or mental health.

it's, it just doesn't seem right in these day and age, but.

Larry Davis: It's not, and I actually have a story to share with you. as I mentioned, do some implicit bias training, and I would always do a slide related to mental health. And I would have a slide about depression. So I would have the word depression, and I would say, Okay. What's the first image that comes to mind when you see depression and I get responses like, Oh, they're sad.

Oh, they're in bed. They're angry. So I was like, okay. And then I pulled up a picture and the picture was of Robin Williams smiling really large. And everyone's Oh, and essentially what I was doing. is I was challenging a stereotype, and that's essentially where stigma comes from within the substance abuse community is there's still that heavy stigma that is driven by stereotypes.

As we know of stereotypes, there are exaggerated perceptions we have of things. They're not based off of facts, but a lot of times our stereotypes come from what we see in the media and entertainment. unfortunately, in a lot of. Favorite shows I like, they depict substance use in such a negative way, if someone isn't exposed to someone that may actually have a substance use disorder, they're going to go off what they see on their entertainment, and this is where that education piece is so important, because you're correct, Chris, stigma does prevent people from, being able to get the services that they need.

They're going to be fearful of how they're going to be perceived, and it depends. Maybe they're in a certain socioeconomic class that plays a role in, they're going to be perceived, maybe at work, within their community. And that is maybe going to prevent them from maybe wanting to get the necessary help, because if you talk about inpatient, oh, or stereotype is, those are people that are crazy.

crazy? And, when we talk about what addiction is and what someone is that has alcohol use disorder, that's someone that's like a wino in the street. Okay. that's a stereotype. That's not the case. So a lot of this is really being able to educate and being able to create a safe environment.

I think that's one of the most important things that, as a provider, you can control. There's lots of things you really can't control with stigma and how people are perceived, but I know, at least for me, I want to make sure I treat every person I meet with respect. So when I meet participants for the first time to do their screening, I'm always going to address them as sir, ma'am.

I'm going to make sure that I communicate in my language where value is instilled into them. And that's slowly how you can break that stigma within court. probation officers, our judges do an excellent job of instilling value in our participants, because a lot of times our participants are used to that negative stigma, the stereotypes, and they're at a point where they're just tired of fighting against it.

So being able to create that safe space, I think, is so important. And again, it goes back to education.

Chris Langley: Wow, that's one heck of an answer and I love that because it's just, it's so important when you meet a participant for the first time that you're welcoming, you're not judging, you're, I mean it just comes across from what you're telling me today of how you work with people and it's so nice to hear. It really is, you've got such a good team that is welcoming people and your main aim is to help. That's, that's why you're there, so that's lovely to hear. always call my guests this question, Larry, because I get some really interesting and varied answers. But can you tell me what your opinion of harm reduction is and how it can play a pivotal role in recovery?

Larry Davis: Absolutely. I would say my opinion with harm reduction has changed over time, but I would start with, I would say being a big advocate of abstinence. I think that's just my background is the abstinence component. However, I do know that certain elements of, harm reduction can be effective, especially in early recovery.

I like to look at it as more of a case by case situation, especially with my background working in a methadone clinic. I think that kind of changed my perspective a little bit, it really just depends where people are at. Now, everyone is maybe ready for complete abstinence. Maybe that harm reduction is that necessary tool that they need to step down.

my focus is really just meeting, participants where they're at. I know with, Drug Court, we have certain expectations in regards to, obviously, you can't use any drugs. I think that's maybe why I do have a mindset of abstinence. But I can totally understand, depending on where someone is at in their recovery.

maybe they need some, assistance.

Chris Langley: I love that. Yeah, it's me. Meet them where they're at. That's, the first thing you should do. Definitely. So thank you for that, Larry. Thank you. Last question. Do you have a message for anyone listening to this podcast who is going through addiction or experience in a mental health trauma?

Larry Davis: anyone that's struggling right now, I would just encourage them that you're not alone. And, would just reinforce the importance of getting into community. I am a proponent of community. AA, NA, those groups are so important, but I'll go one step further. ACA, which is Adult Children of Alcoholics.

CODA, which is Codependents Anonymous. Support groups are very, vital, and community is very vital. as I've talked about with the treatment court, while I feel very blessed with what I'm doing, there's no way I could do this just on an island by myself. Community is really so important, but even in when it comes to one's recovery, having that community in place is so important, and AA, support groups can be such a vital component to help create.

A community. So I would just encourage anyone that might be struggling right now to, seek out, support, look into maybe doing a group or any type of, 12 step program to establish a form of community. Because if you have a form of community, It makes the journey of recovery, much easier.

You're able to remove some barriers because you're not doing it in isolation.

Chris Langley: Definitely. Most definitely community. That is definitely where it's at. That's for sure. Um, can you tell our listeners how to best to contact you and to find your service online?

Larry Davis: Absolutely. I can be found, mostly through LinkedIn. I didn't put my full name, but I'm a junior, so I can be found Larry Davis Jr. I usually pop up pretty quickly on LinkedIn. I can also be found, I would say that's probably the main place to find me right now would be LinkedIn. So yeah.

Chris Langley: Wonderful. Well, Larry, it's been Fascinating. It's so interesting to talk to you and to hear the perspective from a court officer, a court treatment officer as well. I love what you and the whole team, even the judges doing. I think, big shout out to the judges as well in these

drug courts,

Larry Davis: They're

Chris Langley: the daddy.

Yeah, that's, lovely to hear. It really is. And, it's been a real privilege and honor to speak to you today and thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it.

Larry Davis: Thank you, Chris. I appreciate you having me. Thanks

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