Ep40 Addiction Treatment Recovery Not Just Sobriety

Ep40 Addiction Treatment Recovery not just sobriety

[00:00:00] Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

Chris Langley: Hi, welcome to the Addiction Recovery Place Podcast, the podcast championing addiction treatment professionals around the world. I'm your host, Chris Langley, and I'm very pleased to introduce today's guest, Jason Coombs, the CEO of Brick House Recovery in the state of Idaho.

Chris Langley: Jason is a person in long term recovery and is the author of the Amazon bestseller, "Unhooked: How to Help an Addicted Loved one Recover" He's also a professional TED speaker and currently serves as the Southwest Regional Director of the Idaho Association of Addiction Professionals Board. Welcome to Addiction Recovery Place podcast, Jason.

Chris Langley: It's so good to have you with us today.

Jason Coombs: Chris, I'm pumped to be here. Thank you for the invite.

Chris Langley: We're absolutely thrilled and thank you very much for accepting the invite. I really appreciate it. I know our listeners are going to love to hear about your experience, about the great work that you're doing in your state. So we're just going to start off with, can you tell us about yourself and how you started Brickhouse Recovery?

Jason Coombs: Yes, absolutely. I am an avid skier as [00:01:00] evidenced by this picture on my wall, and I love the mountains. I love the outdoors, and I've always had a passion for that. My father and mother took us up as kids all the time into the mountains. Now, I see how much that helped with some of my ADHD as a kid and anxiety disorder as a kid, so I've been battling those all my life and and self medicating before I was diagnosed and that led me to into the path that I'm now in, as far as my profession, as far as my passion and my lifestyle. Today, I'm a proud father of twins who are 8 years old. I just rushed them off to school and and my sweetheart is is the best. We live in the Boise [00:02:00] area of Idaho, and beyond that, there are so many things I could say, but I think that's probably a good intro to myself. We started BrickHouse Recovery 10 years ago, and it's one of those things where you experience your career in a lot of ways as you're going through your 20s and by the time I was 31 and just climbing out of a pretty massive hole caused by addiction and the loss there, what else better to do than to take all of that and turn it into a way to help others. I've spent the rest of the last 16 years really doing that, and BrickHouse Recovery is a result of it.

Chris Langley: Congratulations on your achievement. It just sounds an incredible journey that you've had so far. That sounds absolutely wonderful. We're just going to [00:03:00] talk a little bit about Brickhouse Recovery. So can you tell us about the programs that you offer and your team members as well?

Chris Langley: It'd be great if we can hear about your team members.

Jason Coombs: Absolutely. I think that for for purposes of the listeners, the genesis of why I love our programs is having been a client in five different treatment programs myself, I pulled of the experiences and the approach that I felt helped move me through the stages of change and helped influence me in a positive way, as well as I noticed the things about those programs that I wanted to leave behind. For example, some of those programs were, strictly court mandated. So you have most of the clientele in there are [00:04:00] avoiding jail, so it becomes pseudo prison where the code of, "don't snitch. Don't talk about your feelings. Don't get honest." Anything like that is taboo in those settings, and I found myself getting worse than those. Brick House, was this piecing together of the most solid components or bricks, so to speak, to build up this new lifestyle of recovery and really focusing on how to make it attractive to the individual who is not sure if recovery is appealing to them.

Jason Coombs: When you ask someone to get sober, it's like, " well what' in it for me, and how am I going to feel? If you're asking me to be sober and I'm miserable, I'd [00:05:00] rather be loaded and miserable. Wouldn't you?" And I'm like, "yeah, I get it. I'd rather be loaded and miserable too." So how do you find that Goldilocks zone of being sober but being in a space of emotional sobriety? What I found to be the most powerful process for me as a client was to have a safe space that was labeled as faith-based, but it was really a place where I could wrestle with faith and put out my doubts and my resentments and struggles with this bigger question of "who who am I? And why am I here? And where did I come from? And where am I going after I pass away?" And all of those bigger questions, "what's the meaning here of life" Brick House is like that. We have [00:06:00] brought that element of being faith based into the program so that people can feel safe exploring what it is that matters to them.

Jason Coombs: We follow the standard 12-Step model as our framework for curriculum. Within there, I think of it like a big, wide warehouse where the clinicians can fly and spread their wings and bring their own talents and their own approach to the process, but within that framework, we do find that spirituality is the fastest way to feeling great. It fills that, that hole inside.

Jason Coombs: Beyond that, I feel that is what drives our outcomes and that's where we have become one of the most trusted in the state. As far as the industry goes and in the country, we've been nationally recognized by a research group, [00:07:00] multiple years and that's been phenomenal. They base that all off of outcomes which are evidence based and the research is showing that what is happening at Brick House and what my staff is doing is working from those benchmarks. Then beyond that, I think one of the things that's in it for the clients is that we let them know that we are not interested in bringing you in, hoping for your relapse so that we can bring you back in and restart your funding or bill your insurance or Medicaid or whatever. The reason why that's important to me is, I remember in my first treatment center getting discharged for breaking a rule for taking a shower 10 minutes after shower time, so I went out and I was on the streets homeless and using within a week. Then they caught me and brought me back in just to restart my [00:08:00] funding. I felt like I was a product to be used. Sure, I was in pre-contemplation at the time as well, which plays into it. I could have probably recovered if I was sincere about change because I believe you can recover in a lot of different scenarios and settings. People do it all the time, but we want our clients to feel that we will invest in their long-term recovery.

Jason Coombs: If they complete our program in its entirety, then they agree to the Agreement, which is called the Lifetime Advantage. That means that if they're going down the road, and they have a setback, or if they have a change in medications, or they go through a hard time, maybe a loss of a parent or a loved one, or they just need extra support, they can come back at no cost, and we'll treat them. That's our way of showing them "look, we [00:09:00] want your success. We want you to come through one time. If you need to come through more, we'll talk about that then, but I want them to know up front, "look, I'm not in it for the bottom line. I'm in it for you, and I'm in it for the cause. I'm in it for the recovery movement.

Jason Coombs: So that's a little bit about, us and, how we've with this Frankenstein model of bringing all the things that I felt were important and then you add masters level clinicians and then

Jason Coombs: you add

Jason Coombs: a lot of incredible talent over the last 10 years that have shaped who we are today. Now we have three locations, and it continues to make a difference.

Chris Langley: That's a very inspiring message you've just given there. That really is the. I wanted to ask you about the Advantage Programme and that just sounded an amazing opportunity because it just shows that you're not going to just drop a client if they leave, or they do something. That you'll always welcome them back for the right [00:10:00] choice, and it's not about the bottom line, as they say. I've done many of these podcasts, and that's one of the first times I've heard of this approach. I love that. So thank you very much indeed for explaining that. I think everyone's going to be really interested to hear about that approach.

Jason Coombs: Think about just if you have a child that's going in to treatment, and you're having to put forth the, financing for them, how do you know if it's going to work or not work? And are you willing to put that up again and again. A lot of families either can't do that, or they do that to the point where they end up going broke because they're pouring into their loved one.

Jason Coombs: So this also really brings a level of confidence with their most influential person in their life, which is usually their family member who's helping that [00:11:00] person get into treatment. It definitely is a family approach.

Chris Langley: I'd like to ask you about the work that you do with the family, Jason, because, this group sadly gets overlooked. I've spoken to other people who have family programs, but can you tell us about your program and how a family member can access it and what help that you provide for the families?

Chris Langley: Because they need it as much as the clients do sadly.

Jason Coombs: Yeah, you're absolutely right. I share this with the clients, "look, if you're only here, and missing out on inviting your family member to be a part of our family program, you're only getting half the value of what we offer." We have a variety of ways that we support the clients' family members, and family members of people who have addicted loved ones who aren't quite ready to come into treatment. I have a variety of those resources, such as coaching [00:12:00] calls, videos on our channel, and they try to put out a fair amount of content on podcast interviews, like this. Those are all, no charge. Then there's my book is Unhooked, How to Help an Addicted Loved One Recover, and that is a very small price to pay for a ton of sound evidence based content that's baked in the narrative of my story through the stages of change and what worked with my parents and what they tried that did help and what they tried that I manipulated and didn't help so much and our our, trial and error as we walked through my addiction and they even wrote a chapter in there so that you get to hear it from my parents voices and you get to hear from my sister [00:13:00] and from a spouse's perspective. I feel like it's one way that I'm able to give back, and so I donate cases and cases of these books to treatment centers and to family programs and organizations that are out there, because I just want those folks who are having that felt need that are staying up late at night worrying about their addicted loved one to have something that they can read or listen to on audible. That is some of the work that we do. Then, of course, we have our therapeutic programs within Brick House where we guide them through a lot of these principles in "Unhooked" but also some evidence based curriculum as well.

Chris Langley: How can people get hold of a copy of this really awesome sounding book, Jason?

Jason Coombs: I would point them to either our website, which could be in the show notes as well as, Amazon [00:14:00] and Audible.

Chris Langley: Excellent. Thank you very much. I'd just like to ask because we've talked about families and the clients obviously, but what's going on in the United States and sadly across the rest of the world now is this opioid crisis and fentanyl and the other drugs that seem to be coming into just wreak havoc.

Chris Langley: How is Idaho coping with what's going on with this?

Jason Coombs: I would, guess that Idaho is as behind the eight ball as any other state. I don't believe anyone saw this coming at this rate with the synthetic fentanyl coming in from across the borders and that issue has created a lot of suffering for families and has really changed the disease in respect to the level of [00:15:00] severity that each interaction and the meaning of each interaction that we have. Sometimes now we get one chance to help and one chance to influence, and that can be a lot of pressure on providers, as well as family members because of the fear of what could happen. As a state, I am proud of Idaho and the addiction professionals, and I'm proud of the Department of Health and Welfare's initiatives, and the approach that the governor is taking and making it a priority to make sure that a topic that's discussed. That it put plans and policies around as well as consequences for those that are trafficking, and above and beyond that, I do feel [00:16:00] that the providers in Idaho, such as the board that I sit on at the Idaho Association of Addiction Professionals, which is a subsidiary of NAADAC, and the Idaho chapter is budding and growing, and the people that I sit on that organization with and the board we're trying to create crosswalks for professionals who want to move to Idaho because it is a very attractive place to live, and how can we make it an easier transition for them who have, certifications and licensing to treat Idahoans so that there's not a bottleneck of trying to get approved to treat people here.

Jason Coombs: We're really trying to build up the workforce. So I say that [00:17:00] would be more on the top end of this funnel, and then in the bottom of the funnel, we're really trying to do also is raise up our own future providers. When, clients come through Brick House Recovery, we're putting a lot of emphasis on "how can we help you get to the next step of being a recovery coach, a peer support specialist, how can we help you get back into school?"

Jason Coombs: How can we lead them into a path where they can have vision to taking their experiences and then turning it around to bless the next generation? We're seeing that in a lot of the treatment centers, how they're hiring people who are recovering individuals who came through their program or other programs, and now they're raising it up.

Jason Coombs: So I feel like from that standpoint, Idaho is [00:18:00] doing a lot of good from the state standpoint, as well as the grassroots organic and treatment center levels.

Chris Langley: Yes, you mentioned you're the regional director of NAADAC in Idaho. So what would you say makes joining NAADAC such a really obvious choice for anyone who is wanting to get into the addiction treatment sector or who's already in there?

Jason Coombs: I have found a wealth of resources and like minded individuals who will mentor me and assist me and in learning of what's coming. What's happening on the other side of the state might not necessarily be happening here and vice versa. The collaboration of other professionals in the field is invaluable. It is so powerful. Then connections that introduced me to [00:19:00] folks, such as yourself and resources, such as this podcast. I think that this just invaluable, Most industries have networks like this for professionals. I find that because our cause is the most important on the planet, to me, that we should be banding together, just like other industries. I feel like NAADAC and the Idaho chapter is doing a phenomenal job of that.

Chris Langley: Yes, most definitely. we'll put a link into the show notes as well about Idaho NADAC as well for you. one of the great achievements I really want to bring to people's attention is that you've done some TED Talks. So what was the subject you spoke of? And how well received was it? It looked incredible.

Jason Coombs: Oh, goodness sakes. Thank you for your kind words

Jason Coombs: You know we're our own worst critics. I'm [00:20:00] definitely a critic of that. It was early on in my speaking career. I was wrapping up graduate school, and I gave it my best. The TEDx opportunity was one that presented itself and what a blessing that has been.

Jason Coombs: I feel like it has again, brought me to some connections and some relationships that I treasure. The talk itself, I'll let the audience be the judge.

Chris Langley: I certainly enjoyed it and the feedback I've seen on YouTube has been very positive. So I will put a link to that as well because people are going to love, hearing that as well. We're just going to move on slightly now, Jason, because the word stigma often comes up in these podcasts.

Chris Langley: It seems to come up most times. So why, do you think stigma can have such an impact on those who want to enter treatment who just won't because of just [00:21:00] that word.

Jason Coombs: Yes. The way I view it is that it comes from one's lived experience. Knowing someone who, has struggled with this disease or an encounter with someone with this disease or how it's impacting their home or their neighborhood and the threats and the fears that fall upon a parent who's trying to protect their kids from it. I validate those that have this perceived worldview of those that, have addictions and those that behave, that have the addict behavior, so to speak. In the same [00:22:00] conversation, think it's very important to be able to also provide a contrary perspective to that wherein the truth can be found and fleshed out between the two perspectives.

Jason Coombs: So on one hand, it's this negative stigma, and it's a very difficult thing for people to wrap their head around. We see that in legislature. We see that in laws that are passed, and you just attend one legislative session and you hear how dehumanizings some of the conversation can be around individuals who have this disease.

Jason Coombs: On the other end of the spectrum, you have extreme compassion and extreme empathy for those that didn't choose to have this [00:23:00] disease and and mental illness and co-occurring disorders. I think that Goldilocks zone that I'm talking about is how to counter negative stigma is by sharing success stories, by modeling what attractive recovery looks like and is and showcasing that so that when someone thinks about the proverbial label of of a, an addict or an alcoholic or those labels that we're trying to move away from in, in the field and identify people as individuals and persons in recovery, or persons with substance use disorder. Those kinds of things help in our language and in the way that we talk about them. And [00:24:00] then really showcasing this, attraction of, "I also know someone who had that issue, but they're thriving and they're killing it. And not only that, but they've helped my family when we ran into that."

Jason Coombs: So they can see both sides. The sad thing is it's very ugly and it does hurt a lot of families, and it shreds families apart as it did mine. And now it's also been the very superpower having gone through what I went through that allows me to live this incredible life today. So there's some sides of the story that need to be shared more often.

Chris Langley: Yeah, that's a really interesting answer. I love that. That was, yeah, different perspectives. That's really interesting. Thank you very much indeed. I ask all my guests this question, Jason, because I get so many interesting and varied [00:25:00] answers, but can you tell me your opinion of harm reduction, and how it can play a pivotal role in recovery?

Jason Coombs: I have come a long way in this area. Admittedly, I come from an age where I abused medication assisted treatment and harm reduction medication as as a person in early treatment back in the early 2000s. And from that time to now, I have come a long way to see not only its place and the importance of harm reduction efforts to keep people alive long enough so that they can, in fact, have a chance to change. But it's also hit real close to home and [00:26:00] personal to me. I think the biggest example is the story of my cousin who was 5 months pregnant, living homeless on the streets of Salt Lake City out of her car and sleeping in the back alleys trying to survive with this little baby in her tummy. She was addicted to heroin, IV heroin. When I learned that she was pregnant, a series of things unfolded where we were able to get her up to Idaho, and we got her detoxed and part of that detox process was harm reduction medications, buprenorphine, in order for the fetus to stay alive. That's protocol [00:27:00] that the doctors use and the medical professionals use. I had a real hard time at first with that, but it wasn't about me. It was about this baby, and it was about her, and I have witnessed her recover. I have witnessed her, next month, she will have seven years in long term sobriety, and she is a product of harm reduction and to my knowledge, she may still be, supported by harm reduction medications. It's none of my business, but what I love is that here's a woman that without that would have lost her baby, would have not recovered herself because she was just so chronic and so fragile [00:28:00] and kept reverting back to opiates over and over again. As a person in long term recovery myself, having an opioid use disorder, just because I abused it does not mean that it is a bad thing for every case and every scenario. I think that it depends on what stage of change the person is in and how willing and ready they are, their support system. It depends on if their doctor is doing it above board, or if it's the black market and people running the gamut there. I think there are a lot of factors come in.

Jason Coombs: So that's a long winded explanation of how I have come to see its place. I am an advocate for it because if I could go back and offer it to some of my clients that are no longer with us to keep them alive long [00:29:00] enough to have a change for them and for their families and their kids. I would do it in a heartbeat, but it's too late.

Chris Langley: Thank you very much for sharing that very personal story of your cousin, Jason. I'm very glad to hear that things worked out for her. Thank you very much for sharing that. That's really powerful stuff. Last couple of questions. Do you have any future plans for Brick House Recovery? What's going to happen next year, maybe, if you've got any plans?

Jason Coombs: Next year, we are putting a lot of attention on how to get treatment services to the rural areas of Idaho, and that is a passion of mine. So leveraging telehealth technology, leveraging our relationships with the Department of Corrections and the probation, parole offices and other key influencers [00:30:00] in those areas. I'd love to expand Brick House and have centers in each of seven districts in Idaho, as well as the hub and spoke model using telehealth to get out to their little communities from there. I'm really optimistic about the future in

Chris Langley: Idaho.

Chris Langley: Yeah, so you've just got a couple of small plans there, nothing too major going on then, yeah?

Jason Coombs: I'm a visionary.

Chris Langley: I love it.

Jason Coombs: My CEO will tell me "now, how are we going to do all these things now?" I'm the dreamer and the visionary and well, she keeps me in check.

Chris Langley: Someone needs to, right?

Jason Coombs: That's right.

Chris Langley: Okay. Do you have a message for anyone listening to this podcast who is going through addiction or a mental health trauma?

Jason Coombs: First and foremost if you're listening to this podcast and you're not ready to go into treatment, at least you're ready to listen Yeah. to this podcast, and [00:31:00] that is an amazing start. That is a victory. There are so many important steps that lead one into wanting to change and wanting to recover, and that stage of contemplation is a vital one. You can't skip over that one. So even if there's ambivalence, honor that stage stay alive long enough so that, it's easier said than done. I get it, but I would invite anyone to give it a try. Give. real recovery a try, not just

Jason Coombs: sobriety. Let's learn how to try living life emotionally sober and capitalize on your mental wealth and the superpowers that you have on the other side of those diagnoses that have been holding you back. You'll never know unless you try it.

Chris Langley: [00:32:00] That's perfect. Thank you very much. Lastly, can you tell our listeners how to best to contact you and to find your services online? Wonderful.

Jason Coombs: I think BrickHouseRecovery.com is a great place to start and access the book there. You can access, information about Br ickHouse, and I have a coaching call that I offer each week, as this is recording. Fr noow, it's Thursdays, midday, depending on the time zone. That information is available on our website.

Chris Langley: I'll make sure all the links are in the notes here, but, Jason, I wanted to thank you so much and thank you for everything you're doing in your state. It's really inspiring to hear your work and your history and your story and everything that you're doing is just wonderful sounding, and it's been a real privilege to talk to you today.

Chris Langley: Thank you so much.

Jason Coombs: Oh, thank you, brother. It's an honor to be in [00:33:00] this work with you and looking forward to more of these conversations down the road.

Chris Langley: Definitely. Thank you so much, Jason.

Jason Coombs: You're welcome.

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