EP04 Shannon Anderson, MBA, SHRM-CP, CEO, GritHR Solutions |

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Chris Langley: Hello, and welcome to Addiction Recovery Place podcast. I'm your host, Chris Langley. I'd like to introduce you to today's guest. Shannon Anderson is the HR Fairy Godmother. I love that title. Culture driver and CEO of Grit HR Solutions. Her company provides strategic outsourced HR solutions for clients looking for redefined and enhanced people operations and employee experience. Thanks very much for being here, Shannon.

Shannon Anderson: Hey, Chris, thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be speaking with you

today.

Chris Langley: Thank you very much. I really appreciate your time. Anyway, I know you're very busy but what I wanted to do was have you on the podcast today to talk about your experience and obviously how HR is such a a vital component to any service and especially within addiction treatment or social care services due to confidentiality and all the many things that can kind of come at an HR department.

So obviously I'd love to speak to you about that. So the [00:01:00] first, we're going to kick off with a nice easy one for you first. So how can an HR team support people in the workplace who are experiencing addiction or who are in recovery themselves?

Shannon Anderson: Yeah, absolutely. So, really, and I know we, you and I talked about this prior to today's conversation, but I really believe and I've really seen where proactive HR and approachable HR, which is what all HR professionals are trying to be, can really play that pivotal role by helping to foster that environment of understanding and support.

I think any, anybody that I've ever worked with, with addiction, that's the. Number 1 thing is just that support and the understanding and that no judgment for them.

And then creating as a, as HR, creating those policies that encourage people to seek help, providing access to professional resources, and really.

Trying to work towards that stigma free workplace. And then and some of that includes like regular training for [00:02:00] managers and staff on how to identify and sensitively respond to signs of addiction. I think it's so critical, especially because like there's so much of it that is covered under the Americans with Disabilities Act as a protected condition so long as the person is actively seeking treatment.

And that's the key thing. And a lot of HR professionals don't know that. A lot of managers don't know that. And a lot of people that are seeking treatment don't know that they have disability protections under federal law for them. And some states, you know, are going to have greater protections for them.

But the big thing they need to know is that everybody should know is ADA.

But most importantly, I really think HR needs to learn to prioritize that confidentiality and respect for those that are seeking assistance. And then continuously be that advocate for their rights under the ADA or any other state related leaves that are protected.

Chris Langley: Could you tell us a little bit about the ADA? Being a Brit as well, I've probably not heard of this before, but I didn't realize it was under federal law as well. So if you can just tell us a little bit about that piece of legislation, that would be [00:03:00] fantastic.

Shannon Anderson: Yeah. So the ADA is the Americans with Disabilities Act, and it was first passed. This is why whenever we go somewhere in public and we walk into a public restroom and we see the really big stalls, and the grab bars for somebody who may have mobility challenges or the wheelchair ramps for getting into a

building that was born out of the ADA to make places accessible.

And it was expanded into the workplace to provide employees that can do the essential functions of the job. With accommodations, so the ADA specifically says whether without accommodation, can you do the essential functions of the job? If I'm a rocket scientist, and I don't know how to be a rocket scientist, it doesn't matter how many accommodations you give me.

I'm never going to be able to do the essential functions of the job. But if I can do the essential functions of the job say I'm a, I'm working in a call center and I am seeking recovery treatment for alcoholism and there's a group therapy session that I want to go to that starts at 5 p. m. Every Wednesday, [00:04:00] a reasonable accommodation in that place would then be for me to possibly work with my manager and my HR team at my place of employment to say, I really need to have an adjusted schedule that on Wednesdays, I'd like to try that for the next 12 weeks.

By one hour, just so I can go do this and how can I make up that hour throughout the

week? Can I take less lunch? Can I stay later? But really to answer your question, it's about providing people with equitable access to work with or without those accommodations. And it covers a

myriad of different disabilities, but addiction that's an active treatment is covered as a disability under the ADA.

Chris Langley: Wow, so somebody who's an employee can, can do this, As long as they're accessing some form of service. Is there any kind of bench markers to the service they have to provide? Does it have to be a weekly thing or is it just you're seeing a professional for your addiction.

Shannon Anderson: You're, you're seeking treatment for your addiction. That could be something as simple as, and it's not

simple, it sounds simple when we talk about it, as going [00:05:00] to daily, weekly AA

meetings. It could be maybe you go to inpatient rehab for a month and you take a month leave of absence. Maybe you do a week leave of absence and then you're going to outpatient treatment every day, right?

Like there's so many different ways that that could look. But as long as you are in treatment and not

using, that's the key thing. Then you are covered under the ADA.

Chris Langley: So you're protected. Wow. That's, that's, that's, that's quite a bit of legislation and something very, I don't know whether many people understand that addiction is part of that legislation as well. So that's, that's, that's a big one. So no, thank you very much for explaining me to that. I didn't know that at all.

So that's great. Recovery professionals help people plan strategies if they relapse, which. Unbearably happens, unfortunately. But how would you recommend an employee approach communicating a relapse with their employee's HR department? What would you do to do [00:06:00] that?

Shannon Anderson: So a couple of things, one transparency and honesty are really going to be key here. That and that requires somebody to be vulnerable, but if they're committed to getting better than and working on that, then that vulnerability is going to go a long way in having that empathy and support from your employer.

Another really great resource I want to point out is askjan. org, which is a website sponsored by the Department of Labor and a couple of other providers. And JAN stands for the Job Accommodation Network. So not just for addiction, you could go in and look at this for any disability, but you could go in and as an employer, as HR, as the employee, you could go and type in what the disability is and they can send you tons and tons of ideas.

Ways to have that conversation, possible accommodations. If you work in a very niche environment, you can actually reach out to them. It's a hundred percent free for that guidance on how you might be able to accommodate in that niche environment or [00:07:00] that niche position as well. So knowing that resource, I think is great for anybody that works with anyone in recovery, whether you're the person in recovery, you're the employer, you're an addiction counselor, anything like that could be helpful.

And employers need to approach or employees rather need to approach HR with a clear communication of their situation, emphasizing their commitment to that recovery and their need for support and HR and employers really should respond with that compassion, offering that guidance on available resources and being able to adjust those work responsibilities is necessary.

Always ensuring that privacy and dignity.

Chris Langley: Because the problem with addiction above any other disability or condition is the stigma. And that's, that's, that, that to me is half the battle, I think, and if you can overcome the stigma within a workplace, that makes the rest of it so much easier. So no, that's, definitely, that, that's my own personal view, but, you know

Shannon Anderson: No, I totally I totally agree with you on [00:08:00] that. And, and, you know, some people, I kind of think of it, at least from my perspective, in terms of let's compare it to a diabetic, right? We may not know somebody who's diabetic until they tell us that they're

diabetic and they need to take, you know, if their sugar drops or something like that, and they need to take a break immediately, we're going to accommodate that because that's life saving measures, right?

In some situations. So. And this is a very, this may not be a, this is not a full apples to apples comparison, but why would we then not say, okay, we're not judging you for having diabetes. We're not attaching a stigma to you having diabetes. You have tools in your toolbox to help you maintain that baseline.

So addiction treatment and accommodations and all of that. Should be a tool in the toolbox to helping that person live their best life.

Chris Langley: I mean, it always, always helps, I think, if you've got a good HR department that you know that you can trust to go and talk to about your problems, because the worst things you could do in a workplace. Is to ignore the problems that you're experiencing outside of work, and especially when it's a medical problem as [00:09:00] well. Such as addiction, or as you said, diabetes, or, you know, any other health issue. So, obviously being very open within HR is a vital component. So, how can HR help with employee relations? I mean, what's the, you know, how, how can, how can HR do that?

Shannon Anderson: So hr is really that bridge between the employee and management, right? Like at the end of the day the core function of hr if we really stripped out all the layers It's really to be of service to the business by being of service to the business We are being of service to the employee, the manager, and doing what's best to balance the needs of all of them at the same time.

At least that's my view of how HR should work and how a good HR department should operate. So, so really answer that question. HR is there to help facilitate that open communication, the understanding Helping the employee, if maybe the employee is ready to share with their manager or let their manager know, but maybe they're too scared to talk about it.

HR can help either facilitate that conversation, start [00:10:00] that conversation for the employee and, you know, help that person, you know, HR is not there to be counselors. We're not licensed counselors, but we can help you help employees access counseling, help managers access training. If there's any conflicts, help me those conflicts.

Thanks. And really develop individualized programs and solutions that nurture that positive work environment. So really HR is that architect of the workplace culture and values that support everybody. And this is just another part pillar of that architecture.

Chris Langley: That's a perfect answer. That really is. That sums up everything that I believe in, you know. I couldn't have answered that better myself. So, in what ways does the supportive HR environment contribute to reducing burnout? Because burnout happens so much within social care, addiction treatment services, because you're in the firing line of all these clients.

That's perfect. Issues and stress and strains. So burnout and turnover rates are [00:11:00] pretty high amongst the, this, the profession I, I certainly used to work in. And I felt burnout on a pretty much weekly basis. So how does, how does having a supportive HR, you know, support burnout? What, what are, what are the things that HR can do to kind of solidify the, the, the team to make sure that That they're supported and they don't get burned out and just don't walk out on the job, which, which happens, unfortunately.

Yeah,

Shannon Anderson: I think some of that is about HR recognizing that work in addiction is high, it's a high stress level environment, and there's probably no two days that are the same. And so some of that is about like the proactive measures, like providing flexible work schedules, offering regular check-ins, access to worklessness programs for employees.

To help people maintain that healthy work life balance, but also recognizing [00:12:00] when somebody else is not at somebody's not acting like themselves, they're starting to show signs of burnout and we can pull them aside and have that conversation to say, Chris, you're not being yourself. We're all entitled to a bad day.

We're human. We're entitled to a bad day. You're showing signs of burnout. What support do you need? And again, we want to, we're creating safe and space for employees. Well, our addiction counselors, our addiction professionals are also employees that need that

safe space to maybe vent, maybe take a three day weekend and just, you know, do something for themselves.

So really just looking out for their wellbeing.

Overall,

Chris Langley: Yeah, so it's just being aware of what's going on with each, with each person and obviously checking in on them and if there are any signs from their line then HR can step in and help. So, okay. That, that makes a lot of sense to me. So, so how can a well structured HR process positively impact the overall well being of addiction professionals or people working in this [00:13:00] sector?

Shannon Anderson: really well structured

processes really give us that clear communication. There's clear expectations, fair policies, and accessible support

systems, right? So sometimes we talk about like EAP where they can call and, confidentially talk about an issue, get help doing different things. I've seen some EAPs that are really great.

They're, you know, the old version of an EAP was I'm going through a mental health crisis.

I need advice. You're going to give me three free counseling sessions. These EAPs, these employee assistant programs that are out there now are like a life concierge service where maybe I'm moving my kid, my, my kids and I are moving 50 miles away from our current house and I need to research doctors.

Schools, banks, a myriad of things that would take hours and hours of my time that I'm just too exhausted to deal with after work. I know stories of people who have called into these employee assistance programs, told them the story. And in 72 [00:14:00] hours, they have an email with a hundred of the closest doctors at a five mile radius in the plan network, the best five schools, their ratings, their addresses, their locations, all these life

things. That and it's such a small thing that we don't think about, but I think about when I unwind at the end of the day, all the things I want to do around my house, all the things I want to do project wise, and then I'm tired and I don't want to do them and I don't want to lift a

finger. And so just helping people find that balance in little things like that making sure that just doing things.

Things like this actually really just help give that sense of security and belonging, which we all need. And that's essential for our professional and emotional well being. Cause we can't, I know it's so cheesy, but I'm sure in the helping field you say this all the time. I know I do. We can't pour from an empty cup.

And having a full cup means that all sections of our life are as balanced as they

can be.

Chris Langley: Yep. that's, that's, that's wonderful. So, so what are some of the risks of not having good [00:15:00] HR processes in place? Because, know, it happens, but when bad processes are there, problems arise so much more quickly. So can you just tell us a little about, you know, what, what, what are the risks of, of, of a, of a service not having HR policies, procedures in place and what can happen?

Shannon Anderson: So I always think about I'm sure you've had jobs where you walk in, you fill out a couple pieces of paper and you just kind of start drinking from the fire hose, right? It's chaotic. It's not supportive. You're like, what the heck am I supposed to do? That's the same risk if you don't have effective HR processes in place because nobody knows what they're supposed to do.

Nobody knows what the expectations are. So that leads to that stress. Yeah. Poor job satisfaction and our higher turnover rates and even possible like legal issues. If things aren't being complied with, right? Like if you don't do training on

HIPAA and privacy and things like that, and an employee goes out and talks about, you know, Oh, you know, I had, you [00:16:00] know, so and so come in today and they're an addict on this and their friend or family member hears you over talking, talking about that over dinner.

You've got a lawsuit

on your hands. You've got a HIPAA violation on your hands

in all of these things. And that's just, I mean, that's a very low hanging fruit

example, but if you don't properly train people on that, they don't know what they don't

know.

Chris Langley: that's right. That's right. Can you tell us a little about HIPAA?

Shannon Anderson: So I, my knowledge on HIPAA is probably more than most, but not as great as yours or other

people's. But HIPAA, you know, is that health insurance. Portability and accountability

act. And I looked at the big fancy word for saying in the U S that's the way that we protect your privacy, your medical privacy, you know?

So that same example that I just gave, you know, I may, I can go to dinner. I can say, Oh, I have this new patient. I have this new client. And he told me a really interesting story today. And here's the story he told

me. No names are identified. Nothing is shared. You could be [00:17:00] talking about anybody. Nobody knows anybody can overhear that story and they're protected.

You're

protected. But it's about, you know, where you sign acknowledgments to your rights. You see this every time you go to the doctor who is allowed to know your private medical information.

And they can only disclose that private medical information to people that are on that list on a need to know basis.

Your doctor can't just call up your husband and say, Oh, Shannon came in today and she was talking about how frustrated she was

with you. A, that's not medically related. And B, there's, there's no need to know that. So it's really about those things and, you know, keeping your information confidential and protected.

I mean, that's exactly what it's for.

Chris Langley: Yep. So it's just literally just confidentiality and to make sure that everything is kept, you know, secure and tight. So, okay. How long has HIPAA been around for in America? Okay. Is it, is it quite an old legislation or

Shannon Anderson: Without Googling, I want to say it came out in the late

[00:18:00] 90s, if I'm not mistaking. And I'm not checking on Google right now, my hands are up, like I'm not Googling it, because I, I want to say it's either the late 90s or early 2000s when I remember starting to hear about it.

Chris Langley: Okay. Okay. So it's been around for quite a long time, so it's quite a very established piece of piece of law within HR. Okay.

Shannon Anderson: Correct. And some states have other like further than that, like Texas, for example, has a Texas Medical Privacy

Act. So if you're somebody who lives in Texas, Texas also has its own that acts just like HIPAA, might have a couple extra protections, but HIPAA is that federal

line.

Chris Langley: different states can have different levels, but there is a federal limit on,

Shannon Anderson: Correct. So, you know, thinking about addiction, let's say You told me, hey, I went to the hospital today I can't call the hospital and say, did Chris come in today? What was he

seeing for? Who did he see? What time he was there? I can't do any

of that. And they can't release any of that information. Now, say you came back to work with a doctor's note and it said, you know, Chris was [00:19:00] seen on this date.

He may return to work on this date with no restrictions.

Right? All that's verifying is that you were seen by the doctor. I can't call and ask any questions. The only thing I could do, like maybe for some reason I thought that wasn't a valid doctor's note. I could call and say, hey, is this your template?

And the doctor can say yes. The doctor's office can say, yes, this is our template. That's how we write it. That provider is a provider of

ours. That's all they can say. They cannot confirm or deny if you're a patient. They can't confirm or deny that you were treated. Nothing unless you sign a release and they have that release on file,

Chris Langley: I've got you. Okay. That explains it very, very well. Very important piece of legislation, obviously, with, with data protections. And, you know, given what's happening now within the digital world, you know, it kind of raises the risk somewhat, especially with social media and the other kind of You know, how we communicate as well nowadays, so, okay. So, last couple of questions, Shannon. How does effective HR support foster a culture of accountability and professionalism amongst [00:20:00] addiction professionals, particularly in managing sensitive issues like confidentiality?

Shannon Anderson: right? So I can't stress this enough. And people laugh at me, you know, I've had CEOs and business owners like, why do I have to have an employee handbook, for

example? And I explained to them, it's the thing that sets your expectations and your guidelines for everybody, right? And so that is why are those.

that effective support in HR really, again, it sets the guidelines and then it fosters a culture where that accountability and professionalism, but to me, most importantly, accountability are paramount. So, and some of that includes training on our ethical practices, confidentiality, best practices.

Creating that safe space to report concerns or even just say, I've had a rough day today and I just need to talk. I don't need you to do anything. I just need you to hear me because I had an emotionally draining day

today. [00:21:00] And. Ensuring that consistent enforcement of those policies to create that equity within the workplace as

well.

I

Chris Langley: Perfect. Yeah. Just a couple more questions. So is there anything I've not covered today that you would like to speak about to tell, to tell the listeners today about HR and kind of anything that I've missed out on within my questions?

would say, and this one's maybe more of a personal one, but like how we as HR professionals think about innovation and addressing unique challenges, especially in the addiction

space. That's the one that comes to

my mind.

Yep. Okay. That's perfect. Thank you. Last question. So where could people go to find more about you and GritHR?

Shannon Anderson: Yep. So to dive deeper into our world you can visit our website at just it's grit, G R I T H R solutions. com. You can also follow us on LinkedIn where we're posting content regularly, resources and insights to really on how we're revolutionizing HR in not [00:22:00] just the addiction recovery

field, but there too.

And then we also have a newsletter where people can get a monthly dose of our latest projects, compliance updates, and other success

stories.

Chris Langley: Perfect. Just to make sure, I'll make sure I have all the links on the YouTube down below. So anyone listening to this check Shannon out and thank you very much indeed for your time, Shannon, for telling us about your expertise and explaining why HR is so important within our profession and really appreciate your time today.

Thank you very much indeed.

Shannon Anderson: Yes. Thank you for having me. It's been a great

conversation.

Chris Langley: it. Thanks, Shannon. Do, do, do, do, do.