Ep36 Addiction Professionals | Supporting prevention, clinical and peer professionals

Ep36 Addiction Professionals | Supporting prevention, clinical and peer professionals

[00:00:00] Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

Chris Langley: Hi, welcome to Addiction Recovery Place Podcast, the podcast championing addiction treatment professionals around the world.

I'm your host, Chris Langley. I'm very pleased to introduce today's guest, Victoria Nagel. Victoria is a Clinical Workforce Director from New Jersey Prevention Network, a Licensed Clinical Certified Drug and Alcohol Counselor, and Licensed Professional Counselor helping people experiencing mental health and addictions.

Victoria is also a member of NAADAC. Welcome to Addiction Recovery Place Podcast, Victoria. It's so good to have you with us today.

Victoria Nagel: Yeah, Thank you for having me.

Chris Langley: I really appreciate it, and obviously, you're a very busy person. So we're just going to get straight into the first question. So can you tell me about yourself and how you started working at the New Jersey Prevention Network?

Victoria Nagel: Yeah, sure. It's a bit of a joke around the office that I'm like the agency stalker, if you will. I started actually out as a student of NJPN New Jersey Prevention Network. They offer initial training courses [00:01:00] for the drug and alcohol credential. So I started out in trainings. I really liked the trainings I received. I loved just the mission of the agency. Once I got credentialed, I reached back out to my mentors and my teachers and said, "Hey, I'd love to continue to engage with you. I'd love to teach with you." They said, "sure. We'd love to have you," thankfully. Then I started as a consultant with them and consulted for years as a trainer. I did a lot of initial coursework, and then, about two, almost three years ago now, they reached out and said, "we'd love to have you full time." So that was it. As soon as they said, "we'd love to have you full time." I said, "yes" And jumped on the

opportunity.

Chris Langley: Congratulations. So what were you doing beforehand? Were you involved with, in the, addiction recovery space at all? Or was this something very new to you?

Victoria Nagel: Yeah, no. So I actually have a 10 year career in direct care. So I've spent most of my career working in [00:02:00] residential settings and doing telehealth as well, once that kind of boomed during and then after the pandemic, but I spent a lot of my time working in residential settings. So I started out as a behavioral tech and pretty much from there, every position from there all the way up to administrator. I have worked in, at various levels of care, I think my favorite level of care, though, by far was detox. I just loved the unexpectedness of that level of care. Each day brought on a new challenge, for me and for the clients to work through. So that was probably my favorite level of care.

Chris Langley: No two days are the same within the detox space. Yeah, I totally understand that. So can you tell us about the services that you offer in the community of New Jersey?

Victoria Nagel: Sure. So in my current role, I don't provide any direct care services to clients. What we do here at New Jersey Prevention Network, is we do professional development along the [00:03:00] continuum of care for prevention treatment and peer recovery support. So what we do is we really pour into the addiction workforce.

So being somebody who's worked in those direct client care roles, for years, I understand the burnout; I understand the stress. In my current position, I have the opportunity and the privilege really to listen to my peers that are still doing that direct client care and figure out how I can best support them in a field that sometimes can feel really unsupported and really, unthankful, and help them feel,

whether that's through clinical trainings or, we just started like a consultation group for clinical supervisors to come in and vent, but also get feedback and from their peers and network with their peers, to get some feedback to avoid that tunnel vision and stuff.

So really anything [00:04:00] our workforce needs, we kind of hop on and try to provide to them. Like for example, today we're literally running an ASAM training that we partnered with Hazledon for, because the workforce told us a month ago, "Hey, we're nervous that ASAM 4 is coming down the line.

We need training." And we said, "all right. Let's pull up our sleeves. Give us, a few days." And we partnered with Hazledon and got this training together for them. They could have the support that they needed.

Chris Langley: So what is the training that you're doing for this organization ASAM?

Victoria Nagel: Yeah.

So ASAM is what a lot of agencies use in the treatment world to be able to talk to each other and have common language about different levels of care and where a client is at in their, treatment journey.

So whether they're in earlier stages of treatment or later stages of treatment, it gives us all that common language, and they've made some incredible updates that are really supportive of peer recovery [00:05:00] support and harm reduction. It's going to be a big shift in a big change in the field, so of course the workforce was a little nervous. So we said, "we'll get this training for you." They're, in it right now.

Chris Langley: So, if an organization comes to you and says, "we need help with this," you would just put together a training package and support package for that. That's incredible. That's great to hear that really is because it's, it just shows that you're addressing a real and immediate need as well when you're able to jump straight in.

So that's amazing to hear. So how long has the New Jersey Prevention Network been running? What was the history behind the organization?

Victoria Nagel: Yeah, sure. So we've actually been together for 25 years. We're celebrating our 25th year this year, which is super exciting. and in this year we're celebrating our 25th Conference as well. We host an annual conference every year, so we started out as a prevention agency, the hub, if you will, for all the different prevention agencies.

And the state said "Hey, y'all need to get [00:06:00] together, and unify and incorporate." That's what we did. We incorporated, so we became the prevention network for New Jersey. Since then, we have grown out, and we still continue to be the hub for prevention while each one of our counties in New Jersey has their own prevention agency that we work and partner along with. We've grown out from prevention to treatment and clinical trainings, which is, that's my space.

And then we have our peer recovery space as well, where we help that workforce as well. So we've really in the last 25 years expanded so much.

Chris Langley: It sounds an incredible organization. It seems like you're offering so many different things to people that really need it. You mentioned you have a conference as well. You've, got a conference. How, long has that been running and what, happens at the conference?

Victoria Nagel: Yeah, so our conference has been going on for 25 years. So as long as we've been around, the conference has also been around. It is our big [00:07:00] signature event. It's something we're very, proud of. Last year we had 1200 participants come. It's a pretty large conference; New Jersey is one of the smaller states.

That's pretty big conference. I think, I was just at NAADAC, and they had 1500. So we're throwing out pretty big numbers there. So we're pretty proud of it.

We focus on the continuum of care. So we have speakers from the prevention world, the treatment world, and the peer recovery support world.

We also invite our politicians to come and share about what they're doing. We invite law enforcement. One of our signature workshops we always have and people love is, we have somebody from the DEA and the New Jersey State Police come, and they share about the drug trends, what's going on in the national level, and what's happening right now in our home state of New Jersey. That's a signature, workshop for us. We always have people love that one.

I love that one because it helps me figure out where I need to navigate for clients. [00:08:00] We present on a plethora of topics. We're actually opening our call for proposal for that, if anybody's interested, I can share that information with you.

Chris Langley: Please do.

Victoria Nagel: to get that out to folks.

I just thought about that while we were talking.

Chris Langley: That's incredible. So you work with law enforcement. You have the DEA come to your conference. So you're being told about what are the possible risks that are going to be happening within the communities direct from the DEA .And they come to your conference.

Wow. That's amazing to hear. That really is. You have lots of team members that you work with. So can you tell us about some of those, some of your colleagues, and some of the other services that they provide?

Victoria Nagel: Yeah. Because we work in those three different spaces, prevention, clinical and peer, we have, in our prevention space, we have the Certified Prevention Specialists. Then in our peer space, we have Certified Peer [00:09:00] Recovery Specialists. Then in the clinical space, we have all of our clinicians are actually dually licensed clinicians. So they are able to treat addictions as well as mental health.

Chris Langley: It's very important now with the dual diagnosis work. I remember back in the United Kingdom, one of our problems we had was joining the two services up together to work with a client. It was very difficult. It's great to hear through these podcasts that this is being addressed over here because I think that's a vital component to anyone's recovery.

Having help with mental health treatment and addiction; it goes hand in hand really. So how is your service funded? What areas, nationally do you work with and how do you receive referrals? Because it sounds like you're pretty busy.

Victoria Nagel: Yes. So most of our funding comes from the state, so the Division of Mental Health and Addiction Services in New Jersey funds most of our grants. We do a little bit of fundraising, but outside of that, it's [00:10:00] really all grant funded. The cool thing about our grant funding is as long as you are also an agency in New Jersey that is supported by DMHAS the Division of Mental Health and Addiction Services, our services are free for you. They automatically scholarship you for our services. So our initial trainings, our continuing education trainings, the consult groups, really anything we do, if you are an agency that's within that DMHAS network, our services are totally free. You can come to us, you can come to one of our trainings we're offering because we're in these meetings and listening to what the workforce is saying they need. If you're working at one of these agencies as a Clinical Supervisor or Director, and you realize there's a need there, you can reach out to us and ask, "Hey, we need X, Y, and Z. How can you support us?" We can put our minds together and figure out what is the best way to support you." Now, our [00:11:00] folks that aren't involved with DMHAS licensed agencies, we haven't forgotten about you. We do offer services for those folks as well, and we just try to do them at the most nominal fees that we can; really, a fee that just keeps our lights on. We do some services for those folks too, but most of our agencies in New Jersey luckily are supported by DMHAS. We have a pretty large outreach. We're their preferred provider.

Chris Langley: Yeah, it certainly sounds like it. When we first met Victoria, you described your service as the middleman between the researchers and the frontline teams helping those with addictions. Can you explain a little bit more about this and how you work with agencies?

Victoria Nagel: So like I mentioned, we do a lot of trainings in all our spaces. Our, peers, our clinicians, our prevention specialists, they are all, part of our job is to look at what the current research says, what is SAMHSA saying, what is NIDA saying, what is the research saying, [00:12:00] conceptualizing that and bringing that into our trainings in order to disseminate that then to the field. Because SAMHSA, I know for me, when I was doing direct care work, I didn't have time to read a 20 page journal article to just figure out what the main point of it was. Part of what we do is we scour the internet. We're signed up for all the research, search engines to let us know when new research is coming out, so we can put it into our trainings, but also sometimes if some, this isn't necessarily research, but it's just what's coming to mind, for example, CFR-42, which is a confidentiality law, was updated not, all that long ago. When that was updated rather than as a clinician, I'm not going to be able to go through the whole entire new regulation, we created a one pager to say, "Hey, here's the highlights of what you need to know." We'll do that with some research as well. So when new research comes out and we're like, "Hey, this is something you need to know," we'll do [00:13:00] one pagers, or we'll create things just to get that information out. Sometimes we'll do videos called, Beyond the Classroom Videos." So maybe stuff we can't normally do in the classroom, we just don't have the time or the space to do it. So we'll do a Beyond the Classroom Video where it's maybe five minutes at most, but just a little digestible video that gets uploaded to all of our students' portals, and they can look at that in their own time. It just breaks down "hey, we heard this really new cool thing is happening. This is what it's all about. This is what you need to know, and this is how you can get more information about it, if you're interested."

Chris Langley: That sounds like a vital resource and something that's going to save people an absolute ton of time as well to know about new regulations or anything new coming in. You can just whittle it down nicely and concisely. Yeah, I really like that. That's really clever stuff. How long have you been doing that for? Is that something you've been doing recently with the research?

Victoria Nagel: Oh no, we've [00:14:00] been doing that for a while now with all of our training, so I don't know that I can put a year on it. Like I said, you've been, I joined the team full-time three years ago, but they've been doing that way beyond that.

Chris Langley: wow.

Victoria Nagel: The Beyond the Classroom Vide,s. I think they have even been in our student portals when I was a student and that was over 10 years ago.

Chris Langley: Very established. Absolutely. Excellent stuff. You told me about your Chemical Dependency Associate. Can you explain a little bit about this? Because I was really interested when you told me.

Victoria Nagel: Our Chemical Dependency Associate or CDA, it's a specific credential that we have in New Jersey to help promote the workforce. The requirements are half of what somebody would need to be licensed or rather certified as a drug and alcohol counselor, so what this does is it gets somebody the initial 54 hours. It gets [00:15:00] them about half the classes that they need for full credentialing. Then they work under supervision and get half of their supervision hours, and then they're able to apply for the CDA Associate. So this individual is somebody who has a little bit more extensive training than just walking in and saying, "Hey, I would like a job in the addiction field."

They can come in and say, "Hey, I would like a job in the addiction field, but I have training and I understand ethics. I understand legal. I understand basic counseling skills. So it gives them a foundation and then some experience hours. , , They have a little bit of knowledge under their belt rather than just totally walking in blind.

Because sometimes in New Jersey people just walk in and would like to be an addiction professional and

they

don't have a lot of experience.

Chris Langley: Okay. that sounds, really cool. Just going to talk about you for a couple of seconds, Victoria. You're a member of [00:16:00] NAADAC.

Victoria Nagel: Yes.

Chris Langley: Can you tell us about this organization, how this organization has helped you develop professionally and what you most like about being a member?

Was.

Victoria Nagel: So with NADAC, I love the discussion boards because that's how you and I connected.

Yeah.

I like to connect with my peers and colleagues from other States to figure out what's going on in other States. What are they doing? What are their struggles? Because I'm finding that our struggles are very similar across the board.

It opens up the network to figure out who else, what are other people doing? How can we collaborate together? Because I know what we're struggling with in with New Jersey and our barriers, but other states might have the same struggles, but not the same barriers because they've solved things.

So I like that collaboration that I've been able to get through there. I also love taking their webinar series. I actually, recently took their one on clinical supervision a few months ago. Absolutely loved it, and now we're actually having those speakers come [00:17:00] speak for us for our workforce.

Their presentation was dynamite, and I actually might end up partnering with one of them to do some research on clinical supervision. So it really has helped me as a professional, just be able to network so much.

Chris Langley: And you were just at the, national conference?

Victoria Nagel: Yes. Yes. I was.

Chris Langley: How was that?

Victoria Nagel: Yeah, it was, a lot of fun. It was, really cool. I've never been to the National Harbor, so that was cool to visit, but yeah, it was fun. We were there as an exhibitor, but I was also there as a participant. It was cool just to hear the perspectives again from other people

and just really connect with other addiction professionals across the continuum of care.

Chris Langley: It certainly looked like a very impressive conference, what I saw online. They do an incredible job bringing professionals together. It's a very impressive organization. It really is. Last couple [00:18:00] of questions, Victoria. I ask all of my guests this question just generally because I get a really interesting and varied answers.

Can you tell me what your opinion of harm reduction is and how it can play such a, pivotal role within recovery?

Victoria Nagel: Yeah, sure. So first, I'm going to highlight that this is my opinion, not

necessarily the agency's opinion. I am a big proponent, I love harm reduction. I think harm reduction is something that we all practice every day. Like people say like the seatbelt analogy, right? So like you put your seatbelt on, that's harm reduction.

Like you put a bicycle helmet on, that's harm reduction. I have always been a clinician that has practiced harm reduction if that's what's needed for my client, even in abstinence based programs, right? So I'll talk to a client and say, "Hey, while you're in this program, you have to be abstinent because of X, Y, and Z, right?"

I've worked with a lot of mandated clients. [00:19:00] However, once you leave this program, it's your choice, whether you return to your use or not, but let's talk about how, if you're going to go back to that, how you're going to do that safely. I've always seen that to be much more, powerful and impactful than, "you have to say sober. This is the only way to go," because what am I doing for this client? I'm not setting them up for any success when they leave, if that's what their intention is. And I will say a lot of the times when I do that approach with clients. Most of them don't end up going back to use afterwards anyway. Some of them do, and they are more successful and some of them return to how they were. I think it's really truly like when we say a lot of times in the clinical world, we say, "Oh, meet a client where they're at," but then we force them into abstinence. So are we meeting them where they're at?

So I really like harm reduction because I think it truly meets somebody where they're at, and it doesn't put expectations on somebody. Yeah, [00:20:00] so I love harm

Chris Langley: That was beautiful. Thank you very much for that. Last question, do you have a message for anyone listening to this podcast who is going through an addiction or experiencing a mental health trauma?

Victoria Nagel: Who is going through it?

Chris Langley: Someone who's experiencing an addiction. Do you have a message to anyone that's listening to this podcast who is experiencing addiction?

Victoria Nagel: Yeah. Just ride the wave. It comes and it goes. The feelings they come, and they go. It's just over that next wave into that next hub, and you can do it. The help is out there, and you can do it. You can get through it.

Chris Langley: Excellent. Thank you very much. Last question, Victoria, can you tell our listeners how to best to contact you and to find your service online?

Victoria Nagel: Sure. We're very simple. www.njpn.org is our website. If you want to reach out to me directly, [00:21:00] victoria@NJPN.org.

Chris Langley: Excellent stuff. Victoria, thank you very much for joining me today. I'm sure our listeners had loved hearing about your amazing, organization. It sounds like you're providing your community, and the rest of the country, a wonderful service, much, much needed. So big congratulations to you and your team.

And thank you very much for joining me.

Victoria Nagel: Awesome.

Thank you.

Do, do, do, do, do.