Ep31 Addiction Treatment Body Autonomy

[00:00:00] Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

Chris Langley: Hi, welcome to Addiction Recovery Place Podcast, the podcast championing addiction treatment professionals around the world. I'm your host, Chris Langley, and I'm very pleased to introduce today's guest, Jess Wilson. Jess is the founder of Believe Recovery Counseling in Oklahoma, and also the president of OKAAP, which is Oklahoma Association of Addiction Professionals.

Jess is a licensed alcohol and drug counselor who is passionate about helping others to overcome their addictions and their mental health issues. Jess is a professional member of the National Association of Alcoholism and Drug Abuse Counselors, the Oklahoma Drug and Alcohol Professional Counseling Association, the Association for Science, Diversity and Health, and Oklahoma Eating Disorder Association.

Welcome to Addiction Recovery Place, Jess. It's great to have you with us today.

Jess Wilson: Yes. I'm excited to be here.

Chris Langley: Very much appreciate you, with your time. I really do appreciate it. So we're just going to jump straight into the questions, Jess. Can you tell us about your journey in the addiction treatment field and how you started your private [00:01:00] practice?

Jess Wilson: Yeah, absolutely. So I started in the addiction field because of my own personal journey. That's what got me into schooling and all of that. When I, first got into the field, I started working with adolescents. It was something I didn't think I was gonna love doing, but I did. I had a professor that was like, "I think you'll be good at this."

And I was like, "No, I want nothing to do with adolescence." And I just loved it. It was a lot of hard work. And from there, I've worked with, DHS clients, drug court clients, methadone, suboxone, adults, adolescents, everything in between, just a lot of different areas in the addiction field. Working at a community mental health center when I started my five year plan for private practice and things just, when you make a plan, don't go according to the [00:02:00] plan.

It happened a lot sooner than I wanted. It allowed me to start seeing eating disorder clients, which I was excited for.

Chris Langley: So how soon did it take you to start your practice? Cause you said you had a five year plan. How quickly did you start it?

Jess Wilson: It went from five years to two months.

Chris Langley: That's incredible. Wow. Congratulations on taking the leap. That's impressive that you had a five year plan, and you did it in two months. So no kudos to you. So with your private practice in Oklahoma, what are some of the therapies that you offer people experiencing addictions and mental health trauma?

Jess Wilson: Yeah. Seeking safety is one of the basic core modalities that is often used in Oklahoma for the combination, the co-occurring of trauma and addiction. It starts with the basics of learning skills because it's harder to do the hard [00:03:00] work of trauma if you don't have the skills to cope with the symptoms that are coming up. The great thing about seeking safety is it brings in both components of addiction and trauma, but it works for both singular as well. Added in, I also use cognitive processing therapy and written exposure therapy for my trauma clients. A lot of that is starting with the basis of "what are the skills that we can do to help you?"

Chris Langley: Wonderful. You also specialize in helping those with eating disorders under the principle of "Health at Every Size®." Can you tell us about this and how you help people with, disordered eating patterns with these principles. Just absolutely.

Jess Wilson: Yes. My background is in addiction work, and we work through process addiction. In the addiction world, we classify eating disorders [00:04:00] under process addictions, and then eating disorders doesn't look at it as an addiction, and I bring a wealth of knowledge of how to bring both of those informations come together. The Health at Every Size® principle is that no matter what your size, no matter if you are in a straight size body or in a larger body, you have the right, to medical care regardless. And that we're focusing on treating you as the person and not your size. We really focus on how can I help you with your symptoms and that you're your size and all isn't a part of that. And so it's about how can we help you advocate with medical professionals outside of the mental health realm? How do you navigate the medical profession's fat bias, weight stigma that is out there and just overcoming [00:05:00] that. With a lot of, eating disorders, regardless, there is a level of bias and automatic stigma that if you're in a larger body, then you automatically have binge eating disorder.

If you are in a straighter size body or underweight, is that, you're automatically anorexic. It's about really focusing on, we got to look at the criterias that they're meeting. And a lot of the things like BMI isn't a thing. It is rooted in racism and weight stigma and bias, and that it's not an accurate measurement of anyone's health. That's a lot of what Health at Every Size® is about, is that we're not restricted to our size. We can be healthy in larger bodies, and we can be healthy, unhealthy, or have medical issues and straight size bodies as well. So it's this concept [00:06:00] of health isn't determined by your size.

Chris Langley: Absolutely. That's a word that stigma is a word that comes up time and time again in these podcasts. It could be so damaging to someone who wants to enter a healthier life or to look at kind of their issues and or their addictions and stigma is just, it's very frustrating that we're still in this day and age where a stigma can stop someone entering treatment.

It really is. We mentioned earlier NAADAC, so how long have you been a NAADAC member and in your role as president of the Oklahoma branch?

Jess Wilson: Yes, I have been a NAADAC member since 2017. I had a supervisor that was like, "Hey, this is a great organization, join." At that time, Oklahoma didn't have an affiliate, and she had me be a part of the entry level affiliate meetings to get an affiliate [00:07:00] started. We were getting ready to get an affiliate started and then COVID and all that happened.

So things just fizzled out a bit. Then in 2023, we started seeing a lot of the emails about an Oklahoma affiliate starting back up again. So I was like, "yes, I want to be a part of that." I've been a part of that since the beginning. We became an official affiliate in 2023, and so we're just babies out here in the NAADAC world as far as an Oklahoma affiliate. So we're just working on trying to get the information out there that OKAAP exists. We were excited to have all of our members join and be a part of that.

Chris Langley: So how many members do you have in Oklahoma, and how are you pro promoting to get new members to join? And how often do you meet as well, Jess?

Jess Wilson: Yes. We have about, [00:08:00] roughly between 70 to 80 members. It fluxuates from month to month. . Our main focus right now is getting the information out about NAADAC in Oklahoma because not a lot of people know about NAADAC, or if they do, it's a small niche of people. Our membership drive includes just like telling people about NAADAC.

We're going to start visiting universities and talking to the students about NAADAC. We have been doing a Lunch and Learn series at the beginning of the year. It's like that countdown to your CEUs for your licensure. Our licensure renews in June. I don't know about yours, but ours renews every June. And so from about December to June, we're in that countdown crunch to get your CEUs. One of the things that OCAP offers is free CEUs to our members. They can attend those trainings for free, [00:09:00] which is really great, as well as all the trainings that NAADAC provides. That's pretty much been our membership drive so far.

We're small, we're, but we're mighty. We're just trying to get that information out as best as we can.

Chris Langley: Since you've been a member of NAADAC Jess, what are some of the benefits that you've seen with being a member with your own career growth and your own personal growth within your business, your service as well, your private practice.

Jess Wilson: By far the education piece is my favorite. I'm a nerd. I love education. I love all the things that I can get my hands on, to learn about this field and about our clients. To me client care, the best client care that we can provide is through education. So if we're not educating ourselves, we're not providing our best client care that we could. I'm all about that [00:10:00] education. So I love that. The other piece that I think is so important that I love so much is the connection with other members like yourself, like meeting other people from other States. Cause sometimes it can feel very siloed, even in your own state. Like we're just by ourselves. When I joined NAADAC, it was like, "Oh, wow, there's way more out there than just what's in Oklahoma." And I love that, like being able to see and explore what other states are doing.

Chris Langley: Absolutely. Yeah, it's a fantastic organization. I've met some amazing people since joining as well. So it's been really good for me as well. We're going to talk about your state at the moment, Jess, because when we had the pre-podcast call, we spoke about fentanyl and the opioid crisis, which is obviously the number one issue around the country, sadly. So how is Oklahoma coping and managing with this crisis?

Jess Wilson: One of the things that I love that Oklahoma has been progressive [00:11:00] in as that our Department of Mental Health and Substance Abuse, they have been getting out fentanyl testing strips out into the community. So a lot of our community mental health centers or help centers have those strips to provide to clients out in the community, which is wonderful because that's life saving. Prevention is always life saving, and if we can get that out there, that's wonderful. Then added in Narcan. I think the ability to go to any community health center and get free Narcan is, again, those life saving efforts that is absolutely needed. They went a bit further this year.

They have vending machines that have Narcan in them. I think that is just phenomenal. It's normalizing it. It's not putting it as shame or that stigma of have to hide what you're going through and that anybody can walk through the door, [00:12:00] so it doesn't have to be addictive person. It could be the family member. It could be the neighbor, your random cousin. It could be anybody that can get access to the Narcan, That is just wonderful.

Chris Langley: So I think I've done this is my 31st podcast. I think you're probably the second person to tell me that Narcan is available for free in your state. That's incredible. That really is. It's quite surprising hearing that certain states have different rules around this and the finances and it's just great to hear that Oklahoma seems to be addressing this as it should be.

This should be a free thing. This should be accessible to everyone because clearly there's a massive crisis going on around the country. You also told me when we first met that people using marijuana are also overdosing on fentanyl, and this is obviously very concerning. It's something I hear from other professionals. [00:13:00] Would you say that drug use is now much higher risk than it was, say, five, 10 years ago?

Jess Wilson: I think drug use today and 2024 and probably beyond is probably more dangerous than any time in our history. Because fentanyl, it takes the smallest amount, and it can be dropped in any drug and not a single person know. People are repackaging pills and things. There's so much more danger to using today than there was because like with marijuana, no one suspects to overdose on marijuana, but just takes the tiniest a bit of fentanyl to be placed in a bag of marijuana, and you wouldn't know. That's just, that's dangerous to me.

Chris Langley: It doesn't make any sense to me. I don't quite understand why this is happening in this day and age. Someone who's just buying a bit of cannabis can [00:14:00] die from that. That 10 years ago would never have even been talked about, and it is very frightening how it seems to be that every drug is now potential risk of fentanyl. You also mentioned in Oklahoma the medical marijuana policy and how this is affecting the state. So what are the main issues that you've noticed? And can you tell our audience your concerns about how this is being managed within your state?

Jess Wilson: Yes. So currently medical marijuana in Oklahoma isn't regulated as far as there's certain medical necessities that are able to obtain a medical marijuana license. With that, oftentimes what we'll see, I've had clients who've told me, yeah, I got pulled over for marijuana and the cop just told me, go get a medical marijuana license, and this won't happen again. That doesn't really help the problem that we're dealing with, especially when they're sitting in front of me as a client, [00:15:00] because there's a lot of dangers in that and the medical marijuana is not the same as street marijuana. It's not the same marijuana that was know in the 70s and 60s and 80s even. The medical marijuana is just different strain and a different level of potency. There's a lot of veterinarians are seeing an uptick in animal exposures. We just don't know enough about what is out there from the medical marijuana and how it's impacting. There are some studies, but there's not a lot. We have a lot of our clients that will want to use it for depression, anxiety, and we do know that there is a study that's that shows that is not beneficial for depression, anxiety [00:16:00] symptoms, and it can exacerbate it.

Then you have individuals who are using edibles, and we know that edibles can induce psychosis episodes. If someody already has

an undiagnosed psychosis, in their family history, that can be very dangerous. It's just very dangerous to know what's going on. Knowing your family history is really important but also looking at what it is that's out there, talking to professionals, just not medical professionals or things like that. There are, a number of ways people can get a medical marijuana card without seeing like a primary care doctor, like they can go to .com doctor. Sometimes these doctors are like OBGYNs, so there's not really a straightforward [00:17:00] oversight or regulation. I know that there are some medical necessities for individuals with different medical, medical issues, but for the addiction world, it's very hard.

I think medical marijuana makes it very difficult when we're helping people with addictions, which kind of comes into, okay, we take a harm reduction approach then, and I'm going to educate you on the

dangers and talk to you about the benefits of sobriety. It's never my job to get them sober. It is my job to educate and give them the information.

that's right. and work through the issues.

I think that's another thing that kind of really helps me as a professional is, while I know the dangers and I know the struggles of medical marijuana, it's body autonomy with the client to figure out how they want to approach that.

Chris Langley: Absolutely. Absolutely. So how's treatment for addictions for young [00:18:00] people in Oklahoma dealt with? And what are the resources for this age group?

Jess Wilson: I wish we had more resources in Oklahoma for adolescents. I absolutely do. I see a lot of intensive outpatient programs popping up for adults, and I worry about our adolescents because we wouldn't need so many adult treatment centers if we had more care for our adolescents. I think I can count on the number of like residential programs on one hand in the state for adolescents.

It's very few, and we've had a couple that closed up in the state and throughout the years. I started my addiction field working with adolescents, and so my heart starts there with them. I know that it's our biggest prevention. If we can work with our adolescents, we can [00:19:00] make sure that they're getting the education that as they were walking to adulthood, that isn't the path that they choose, because we all know that the path of recovery is hard. Even if it's experimentation with drugs and it hasn't quite gotten to a full blown addiction, that's where our prevention starts.

I'd love to see more adolescent programs. There are some agencies that do wonderful work in the county that I live in, Canadian County, Oklahoma, there is a Canadian County Children's Justice Center. They have a residential program there. It's free for all of their Canadian residents.

Any teenager in the Canadian area can go there for free for services. You have inpatient and outpatient services, as well as there's treatment for adults at that, location as well. They do a lot of DHS work. There is a children's [00:20:00] recovery center down in Norman that it, that works with co-occurring. Which is fantastic. There is White Horse Ranch, I believe that's one word, Oklahoma that deals with, women's, adolescent, girl treatment, and then there is, Jack Brown Adolescent Center that is for our tribal members.

Chris Langley: I see.

Jess Wilson: Those are the ones

that I know of, but I'm sure that there's more because I haven't been in the adolescent field for a little bit.

Chris Langley: But you've seen a reduction in services available for young people since you've been in this field. Yeah.

Jess Wilson: yes,

Chris Langley: Is that due to funding, would you say?

Jess Wilson: lack of funding is probably is always going to be an issue for any of our services. I also think that a lack of providers that have the special training for adolescents, and I know NAADAC is currently trying to [00:21:00] work on a certification program for adolescent therapist. They recently had a beta stage.

I don't know if it's still going, on but I know that they were really looking for providers for that purpose because I know that there is research trends that show that there's not enough providers at the bottom and the top of our age groups for addiction work. We don't have enough for our adolescents and our children, our young children into adolescent phase, and then our elderly population.

So I think there's not a lot of knowledge and education to prepare us to work with adolescents.

Chris Langley: That's great to hear that you're saying that NAADAC are looking into doing this as well, because there's a clear need.

Jess Wilson: Yes, absolutely.

Chris Langley: It'd be interesting to follow that.

Jess Wilson: Yes, I think that the big thing is that [00:22:00] what's needed with adolescent care is the family component. It's needed throughout, even working with adults. Not a lot of treatment providers have that family component, but it's really important in that adolescent stage. And sometimes that's really hard to like wrangle the family into sessions.

Chris Langley: Thank you for explaining that to me, Jess. That's really interesting. We've come to the last few questions now, Jess. I ask all of my guests this question because I get some really interesting answers, but can you tell me your opinion of harm reduction and how it plays such a pivotal role within recovery?

Jess Wilson: . I am a huge fan of harm reduction. We have to meet the client where they are. That is harm reduction at its greatest, its finest. I use harm reduction both with addiction individuals, as well as my eating disordered individuals, because not [00:23:00] everybody comes into therapy and is "yes, I'm ready. Let's gt on this. Harm reduction says, "okay, what if you were to do this? What would happen to your life if you did this, right? What are you willing to work on?" Let's start there." I think harm reduction is another aspect of it saves lives. Why, wouldn't we do it? All right. The whole purpose that we're in here is to help save lives and help people get on their recovery path. For me, if you're using heroin, meth, and marijuana, I'm not going to start with the marijuana. Let's get you off the heroin and meth, Let's start there. Eating disorders, diet culture is so prevalent, and it's so hard, and so it's like calling out the diet culture. It's, "okay, I understand calorie counting has been a thing you've done for the majority of your life. Well, what if we just didn't do it one day? What [00:24:00] if we just didn't do it two days?" Working with that and letting some of that go. The greatest part of harm reduction for me is coming into a session and a client saying, "guess what?

I didn't do it today. I didn't use

at all.

I didn't use any of it." Or "I didn't calorie count in the last week." And that's phenomenal.

Chris Langley: Yeah.

Jess Wilson: I think that's the most rewarding part for me with harm reduction is we give the client the autonomy to make those choices and sometimes they make it quicker than they thought they could, what we're expecting in their treatment plan. So it's just wonderful.

Chris Langley: Yeah. That's a great answer. Thank you for that. Yes. What future plans do you have for your private practice?

Jess Wilson: So I am taking new trainings next year, and I'm a nerd. I like my education, so I'm super excited for those trainings. That's just gonna make me a better clinician and better client care for private, [00:25:00] clients. I don't have really any huge plans. I'm just settling out and just finding my way. I do want to work more in more passive income opportunities such as notebooks and journals. I have a lot of great techniques that I use for clients, and I share it with my co-workers. I'd love to be able to put that together to be able to share with clients. That's a big goal on my list is to accomplish some workbooks, and worksheets and stuff for clients down the road.

Chris Langley: That sounds awesome. That really does. And you know what you've achieved is, as I mentioned earlier, you had a five year plan and you jump straight in there and what you're doing now is just incredible. It really is. It's very impressive hearing your story. Do you have a message for anyone listening to this podcast who is going through addiction or is going through some kind of trauma, [00:26:00] Jess?

Jess Wilson: The best thing I can say is you're not alone. There is hope and that's what we as providers are here for is to provide you that hope I know it's like to walk in those doors or to reach out. It's scary. And the fact that you even just do that is a huge step, and we'll carry the hope until till you see that it is working for you. You're starting to get aspects of your life back and just start to pull in that hope yourself. You're not alone and we're here to help.

Chris Langley: Wonderful. Last question. Can you tell our listeners how best to contact you and to find your service online and also how to reach out to you to become a member of OKAAP?

Jess Wilson: Yes. So for my private practice, you can find me at Believeok.com. You can find my email and phone number on my website. As far as [00:27:00] OKAAP, we'd love to have you. Please join.

Chris Langley: Okay.

Jess Wilson: For OKAAP, you can find us at OKAAPNAADAC@gmail.com

Chris Langley: Marvelous. Jess, it's been a real pleasure to talk to you and to find out about your amazing work and your career, which you've really springboarded into beautifully and obviously with your work through NAADAC, who is just an amazing organization. It's been a real privilege to talk to you today.

Thank you very much for your time. I really appreciate it.

Jess Wilson: Thank you. I appreciate you having me on.

Chris Langley: Thank you, Jess.

Do, do, do, do, do.