Ep22 Addiction Treatment Save a Life Stations

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Chris Langley: Hi, welcome to the Addiction Recovery Place Podcast, the podcast championing addiction treatment professionals around the world. I'm your host, Chris Langley, and I'm very pleased to introduce today's guest, Jim Barrett. Jim is the Outreach Director and Co-founder of Naloxone Access Now, an innovative project which is putting Saver Life Stations on the streets of Minneapolis. He Jim has also just recently been featured in an article in the New York Times about this very important work in his community. Welcome to Addiction Recovery Place Podcast, Jim. It's great to have you with us today.

Jim Barrett: Thanks for inviting me, Chris. I'm glad to be here.

Chris Langley: I really appreciate this and we'd love to find out about this really important work that you're doing in your state. So let's kick this conversation off. So tell us about your journey and how you and Andrew started Naloxone Access Now.

Jim Barrett: Andrew and I have known each other for 20 some years. We're both in long term recovery, and I had gotten this idea about, [00:01:00] doing something, I wasn't sure what, around the opioid overdose problem. I had retired a couple years ago and after that I started working with AmeriCorps as a

Recovery Project Coordinator and got a little more deeply involved and learned more about the issues around overdose and opioid addiction and that type of thing and found it extremely frustrating that the number of deaths has been rising since 2010 and, I thought that, There has to be something that we can do differently.

That we need to try more things. We're not sure what exactly works and what doesn't work. I was also inspired by a documentary called, "The Beauty in the Bloodshed." And it involves an artist, Nan Golden, who, took on the Sackler family who has donated millions and millions of dollars to many museums around the world and has their name on, many [00:02:00] museums and, that type of thing.

And she became quite angry over what they had done in terms of the Oxycontin and that whole thing. And took on the battle of getting all these museums like the Louvre and the Met to remove the Sackler name. And I found that really inspiring and thought maybe in my own small way, I could do something like that. And Andrew is extremely handy, and I'm not and the idea I had come up with was how can we get Naloxone and Narcan out into the community to make it readily available to people, and I thought about I knew people were putting like regular big old, vending machines out, the kind that have candy and chips and are taller than you and I, and, costs $7, 000.

That didn't seem like a good option for me, but I ended up for our local newspaper here, I called them up and said, [00:03:00] "do you have old newspaper boxes? The ones that sit on the corner." And they said they did. And so we bought one and, we didn't know what we were going to do with it exactly, but we got it in Andrew's garage, And, Andrew added a shelf to it.

We had to paint it. So it wasn't recognizable and modify a few other things. And we created, a wrap and had a company print the wrap, a vinyl wrap that goes around the top and the sides. And we thought, here we got, A vending machine for Narcan. And now we have to see if anybody will take it.

And, so long story short, just this after, this podcast, I'm going to deliver our sixth, box today. So we're pretty excited. And, so that's been roughly a year [00:04:00] that it's taken us from the time that box was delivered to Andrew's garage to today.

Chris Langley: So it's only taken you a year to get this far within your this project and you've already got six boxes. You're about to deliver your sixth one this afternoon within a year. That's incredible.

Jim Barrett: Yeah, yes.

Chris Langley: Congratulations. That's incredible.

Jim Barrett: you. Yeah,

Chris Langley: It really is. Can you provide us with some facts about opioid overdoses and explain why what you're doing in the community is so important because this is really big news.

Chris Langley: There were some statistics that really jumped out at me when I was with AmeriCorps that I came across. One was that 46% of overdoses occur when there's a bystander nearby. And if that person had naloxone or Narcan and knew how to use it, obviously a whole lot of overdoses could have been reversed.

So that told me that, there's an opportunity to change something. What if we could [00:05:00] cut that number in half, that would be amazing, I think. Some of the other things were that. 69% of overdoses occur in private residences. And I think most people think most overdoses occur at encampments and on the street corner and that type of thing.

But, that's a relatively small percent of the population, so that tells me it's happening right around us. that and things like roughly a third of overdoses are people over 50. It's not just young people that are dying from this. So those kind of are three numbers that struck me as, maybe there's an opportunity to hear, to reach different people and, work at this problem in a slightly different way./

Absolutely. Absolutely. When, you, when, you and Andrew started [00:06:00] and what was some of the obstacles that you had to overcome to start you to start this project in Minneapolis.

Jim Barrett: Well, so

We, started just approaching, and my idea was, that I wanted it in like grocery stores, coffee shops, barber shops, public spaces, bars, restaurants, office buildings, really anywhere. And it would be easy for people to access. They'd be readily available. So we started approaching people, and some of the responses were like one person, a business owner said to me, "if I have this box in my store, will drug addicts come to the store?"

And I said, "they already do, but if you mean a drug addict, that's wearing a blanket for, winter coat. If they don't already, they're probably not going to come just because you have this box." [00:07:00] So there is a lot of, and people would say, "I don't know any drug addicts." People felt and feel, and I think rightfully so, in many ways, disconnected from the thing.

It's really, "how can I be involved?" So there was that. Some people were afraid of the needles because in the naloxone, they're injectable IM application. Some people didn't like the needles. Some people had problems. "I don't really have a room for this box in my store." A lot of different things, and it's just a really different concept.

No one wakes up in the morning and says, "gee, where can I get a naloxone vending machine?"

Nobody's boss ever said to him, "today, I want you to find a naloxone vending machine." So it's a lot of education and a lot of, it takes a lot of time and it's always, "I need to run [00:08:00] this by my board. I need to," that kind of thing. So at first it was pretty slow going, and when we did put them in, it usually meant months of talking to people and reassuring them and, that type of thing.

So it is kind of a numbers game, and we spend most of our time. That's what we do is the outreach and trying to find the right person to talk to and, that type of thing. It takes us about three to four hours to convert, a box from the original Star Tribune thing into the, save a life station.

But by far the vast majority of our work is, following up with people, having a conversation, getting back to them saying, "are you ready to talk some more? Do we have the right people here at this meeting," and all those [00:09:00] kinds of things. But it has of late started moving a little faster.

And I think in some regards, I'm picking maybe better spots.

Chris Langley: Excellent. Excellent stuff. So can you just explain to our audience, Jim, how save a life stations work and what's involved in actually installing them within the community.

Jim Barrett: Yeah, one of the things is because they are so low tech, so there's really nothing that can break on them, which I really liked the simplicity of that. So we donate them to everyone who accepts them. But what we ask them to do, and we feel like, we want them to have skin in the game, so to speak, is we don't supply with, them with the naloxone kits and usually fentanyl test strips.

We [00:10:00] ask that they, establish a relationship with another, usually a nonprofit, that can provide the kits to them. And there are a number of them in the Minneapolis area that do this. And it's just a matter of ordering them and either driving over and picking them up, or they could pay to have them mailed to them or delivered in some fashion.

So unless they're willing to do that, we feel like we probably wouldn't have you. We wouldn't give you a box. But most people have been willing to do, well, no one said no as a result of that. We just feel it's, if they have that threshold where they're willing to do that, then we'll give them the box.

Generally, we end up talking about, training. And most folks, agree to get their, staff trained so that, they'll know how to use these kits, if needed. If anyone's in there [00:11:00] we have, we're in a theater and in, in a restaurant now and that kind of thing, could actually use this to save a life if someone came into their location.

And there are other nonprofits. We don't do that because I feel like it's duplicative, and there's lots of other organizations that are more than happy to come in and do the training. We try and work with as many other community partners as we can to support this, and so then we can just stay focused on doing outreach and trying to find the next place that will take a box.

Chris Langley: So you're working with many different, services within the community. A lot of joint working going on within the community to get this together.

This is incredible. I can't believe you've only, this has been just one year you've achieved this. It's, pretty incredible stuff, Jim.

It really is. I'm, pleased to be talking to you today. How, are you funding this? What's, where do you get donations [00:12:00] or?

Jim Barrett: We've, when we started, we were just, because of boxes, originally when we bought the first two, they charge us $20 each, which is, a ridiculously low price. And, when we told them what we were doing, they go, Oh, the next time they said, they sold them for, they said, we're going to sell them to you for $10 each.

And the last time we bought some, I think it was like $7 each. So it keeps coming down. So we're encouraged to buy more. But, anyway, that was a pretty low cost, and we were just working in Andrew's garage. And, so we had some expenses like we need to paint the boxes. So they're no longer look like, the newspaper boxes.

And, we spend a few, probably costs us $30 to convert each box. And, but the vinyl wraps were, the first ones we bought and there [00:13:00] was $140 per box. I went to a second vendor. I found a vendor near, much closer to our home. I went to him and, he printed, two of them for us, and he didn't charge us for them.

And we were pretty surprised that he did that. We didn't ask him to do that. And, we're just prepared to pay out of pocket for this. And since then, he's been very generous and continued to print these, vinyl wraps for us. They're our biggest expense. And, they say, in fact, everybody in the company says, "we really support you and what you're doing."

And it's really heartwarming to find people like this and, "keep us posted on what you're doing." The Star Tribune people are the same way. They go, "we want to know what's going on and how you're doing." It's, really nice. that's really been helpful. We also [00:14:00] got a small grant this year

from Hennepin County, the opioid response team. That's been really helpful. So really we don't have any out of pocket expenses at this point.

Chris Langley: Excellent. That's good to hear. So in an ideal world, Jim, who, do you think should have access to naloxone and Narcan? What would you like to see happen with this?

Jim Barrett: I would just like to see that it's something that people don't even really think about any more than they think about fire extinguishers or AED machines, that kind of thing. that they just be everywhere, that you would go, that you could ask for them. That's really my goal is to, always have it nearby.

And I have it in my car. I have it in my [00:15:00] apartment. I carried around in my computer bag, so I just always have it with me. And I, I would hope people would do the same as, As that and because you just never know when it will happen and be able to do that. I also, because there is so much education,

I know I talked to people or replace the box and they say people come in. They see the box and they go, "what is that? And is it really free? And can I take some?" And they have so many questions about it. And this is an ulterior motive with it, with the boxes is, it's education and awareness and making people realize, it's a problem and that it's something that they can help solve,

and that's part of it too. So there's, cause there's just so much stigma work around this and misunderstanding, and people just don't know about the whole opioid thing. If I'm meeting with some [00:16:00] organization and trying to get them to accept a box, I'll, say, have you ever seen a naloxone kit?

No one ever has. And so I open it and I pour out the contents and they're all very interested in what's in it, and they go, Oh, I didn't, they just, they don't know. So we really do a lot of education and kind of changing people's perceptions about, their ability to help solve this problem.

Chris Langley: Yeah. So where are your boxes located? You're about to do your sixth one today, Jim. So where, what locations have you got them in at the moment?

Jim Barrett: today we're dropping it off at a tattoo shop, and, last week we dropped one off at a restaurant. We also have one in a theater, a live theater, and we have one at a community clinic. It does all kinds of help, but it also does, opioid addiction treatment, too. So [00:17:00] they have one outside their building, and then there's a community center that works with a wide variety of the population from kids and infants to seniors helping with all kinds of, things.

They have a food shelf, and they do job training and just a million different things, and they have a box as well.

Chris Langley: And so you've got quite a wide range of locations that you're out. So from a restaurant to an actual drug service as well,and and a theater,

Jim Barrett: Yeah.

Chris Langley: Yeah.

Jim Barrett: That's cool.

Yeah. I do have a kind of a checklist. I wanted to do a tattoo shop. I wanted to do a coffee shop. I'd like to get it, and we have a lot of breweries in the part of the Minneapolis we live in. And I'd like to start getting it into a few breweries. And, so yeah, I, I like barbershops would be another one.

I'd like to get them into.

Chris Langley: Excellent stuff. Excellent. You just mentioned, Jim, that you don't offer training, which [00:18:00] organization do you do work with that offers the training, and who can get in touch with, if they, if someone listening to this podcast will want to learn more about, this, training and amazing medication.

Jim Barrett: The group that I probably work with most closely is, the Twin Cities Recovery Project, and so that, that's the most. But there are probably a half dozen other ones. Some of them have a particular focus like Native American or gay. And I would, so at times I'll connect them with a group that has a more specific interest in a particular, group of people, that kind of thing.

So I have lots of, I really have a wealth of resources that can help with that kind of thing.

Chris Langley: Excellent.

Jim Barrett: And all and they're all really, it's going. "Yes. Yes. we'll do training for you." And I go, "great." So it's really [00:19:00] nice.

Chris Langley: Wonderful stuff. Do you have a message, Jim, for anyone who's interested in distributing naloxone in their community?

Jim Barrett: Yeah, I guess I have to say our model is pretty good because it's just, low cost buying these, and I have to believe that there's, you can find these. Call the local, paper in your neighborhood. They probably just because, print has kind of gone out of style, and it's mostly digital, and they always, they seem to have a lot of these boxes available, and what's cheaper than $20 or, even that.

And, so that's, to me, it was the real low cost way of, just getting started. And, I hope that, It just spurs people into, there's lots of different ways. We've talked to some people about buying something and modifying it, like a [00:20:00] wall mounted device. Now we would probably have to buy that new, but it would, it, wouldn't be thousands of dollars like a regular vending machine, but it could just be something higher up because one organization was concerned about kids getting the needles and the kits.

And so if they're up on the wall, that would probably avoid that kind of thing. We're not that, if, like I say, we would be flexible and help people find another way to distribute it if our box didn't work for them for some reason. So we're not saying take it or leave it, but we'll help you figure out another means.

I think that, there's probably even maybe some simpler ways of distributing these. You could buy some kind of box and, nail it to a telephone pole, and keep it filled with, kits, something like that. There's a million different ways to really do this. We just, I think we're lucky enough to find that[00:21:00]

this way it worked pretty well for us. And I, I do like the size of these boxes. They're hard to miss, and people seem to really, notice them and respond to them, which is also part of the deal.

Chris Langley: I think you've definitely nailed the model. There's no question about

Jim Barrett: Yeah, I think it's worked well for us anyway. But, and I would just say, try it. We, like I say, we just bought one box and it was like, "can we, get one person to take this?" And then we'll try again. And that's been our model, and if it didn't work, we'd go, "I don't know.

We'll try something different." There's lots of ways to work on this problem. And if this wasn't the one, we would have probably tried something different.

Chris Langley: Most definitely. lastly, Jim, can you tell our listeners how best to contact you in your service online? They wanted to speak to you.

Jim Barrett: We have a website, which I'm really grateful for, because that's something that we, a [00:22:00] friend of mine, works for a web development company, and they donated it to us. So we've been really lucky to have, so many people, looking out for us. And it's the it's naloxoneaccessnow.com

That's a mouthful. I know. NaloxoneAccessNow.com. There's a form on there. You can fill it out and I'd be glad to discuss with anyone, ideas for what I think will work and what some of the obstacles are. And, you do have to be patient, and it takes time to get people to think about it. It's a new way of thinking about things and not always readily embraced, but I'd be glad to help anybody who wants to do something like this where they live.

Chris Langley: Wonderful. last question, Jim, is there anything that you'd like to mention? I've not asked you or is there any, if you've got any plans for the future, are you just going to keep going with [00:23:00] what you're doing and build from there?

Jim Barrett: Well, yeah, we're going to keep going. We're, starting to, it seems like pick up speed of late, and now we have a kind of different problem of how do we, like maybe we need to find a space other than Andrew's unheated garage to do this in. And because now we might want to do five or six of these at one time, that type of thing.

There's some of those kinds of issues, which, I would say they're growing pains and that's great. They're great problems to have as far as I'm concerned. So that's a direction we want to go in, and I just hope that other people will say, even if they're around the Minneapolis area, I'm going to do it this way or that way, or I'm going to try it. I hope people copy it or modify it, and do it their own way and do it all over the [00:24:00] country.

And, that's what I wanted to do is get people use the idea like, yeah, we should have a, one of those in our business or something. That's really the goal is what I'd like to see happen.

Chris Langley: Totally agree. Jim, it's been a real pleasure to speak to you today, and I've really enjoyed hearing about the great work that you're doing. It's very inspiring, and I'm sure people listening to this would feel the same way. So thank you for what you're doing because you're saving lives, and you're making a real effort in your community. And you're having a big difference in what you're doing.

I'm really glad to have you on the podcast. Thank you so much for joining me.

Jim Barrett: Thanks so much for having me, Chris. I really appreciate it.

Chris Langley: Thanks very much. Indeed. Thanks, Jim.

Do, do, do, do, do.