Ep19 Addiction Treatment Helping Communities Heal

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Chris Langley: Hi, welcome to the Addiction Recovery Place podcast, the podcast championing addiction treatment professionals around the world.

I'm your host, Chris Langley, and I'm very pleased to introduce today's guest, Matt Hare and Drew Amburn from Morganton, North Carolina. Matt is the Program Director of the Flynn Recovery Community, a Burke Recovery Program that provides a 90 day recovery program for men. Drew is the Executive Director of the Burke Council of Alcoholism and Chemical Dependency. Welcome to the Addiction Recovery Place Podcast, Matt and Drew. It's great to have you both with us today.

Matt Hare & Drew Amburn: Good to be here. Thanks for having us.

Chris Langley: Thank you very much indeed. Really appreciate it. I know you guys are both very busy, so we're just going to jump straight into this. Firstly, Matt, can you tell us about your journey and how you became the Program Director at Flynn?

Matt Hare: Yeah, I like a lot of, addiction stories and stuff, mine's a lot the same as, anybody else's. I grew up in a good family. I just, I kind of got in with the wrong crowd. And, I got on pain pills when I was a kid for a knee injury. And that just spiraled me down and led me to addiction.

Me and my wife both got hit pretty hard with it. We both went to prison. My mom got the kids and different things like that. And I just couldn't find a way out. I kept going to these rehabs and detoxes. And I couldn't find a way out, couldn't find a way out. I kept going back home.

And, when I went to the last rehab, they told me about a place called Flynn Recovery Community in Morganton, North Carolina. So I went, I went through there, and I was very judgmental at first, and I didn't think it was going to work, but the love that I felt from Flynn Recovery Community and Burke Recovery as a whole, the love [00:02:00] that I felt for them and the non judgment, and it just brought me in.

And when I came in, I didn't, I couldn't spell recovery, I had no idea what that looked like. These guys, that worked at Burke recovery and that worked at Flynn Recovery Community. They took me in and it was patient with me and just the love that they showed me was something that I've never felt before.

I've always felt judgment, so I actually came through Flynn home as a client in 2020. And, when I graduated, I loved what bird recovery and Flynn home does so much that I wanted to be a part of it. So I started becoming a night technician and I would stay, with the guys to take them to meetings and make sure they ate and put them, make sure they was in bed by 10 and all that.

And then I would go to work and I did that for a couple of years, and then the, job came open for the, program, director and, They offered it to me and I jumped on it and it's been the best thing ever. These guys helped me more than they know, and I'm just lucky and blessed to be able to be a part of it, but, what, kept me here was just a love that these guys showed the clients and, I want to mirror that.

So whenever clients come in, I want to show them that same love and the same tolerance and the same patience that I was shown.

Chris Langley: Yes. Yeah. firstly, congratulations on your achievement with recovery, That's quite inspiring, and the fact that you're now in the position that you're in speaks volumes for yourself. So, that's, a huge one. So big congratulations to you on that. Drew, how did you become the Executive Director of Burke Council on Alcoholism and Chemical Dependency?

Drew Amburn: It's similar to Max. I also am a person in recovery, and I guess both of our stories symbolize the message of hope and maybe redemption and renewal. And there's, a lot of spiritual growth that's happened over the years as a result, but I too came from a good family. They raised me right.

I was really influenced at a young age by music, by I guess culture, by, not necessarily sports and things like that, but music, skateboarding, just that, whole type of scene, and we viewed ourselves as. different than or other than, and didn't really feel like we fit in.

And with that came, exploration, and I started, out smoking marijuana and drinking alcohol, and that morphed into, using psychedelics, LSD and mushrooms and things like that. And really feeling this spiritual connection and this kind of fellowship and network with just a core group of friends that I had at the time. But, we didn't, I didn't know what was happening, internally as a person while that whole process was going on. So I continued to use and continue to use different substances. Moved into cocaine, moved into, opiates and

things like that. And it just, became a

darker,world

Chris Langley: Mhm.

Drew Amburn: that, that encompasses you.

What I can say is at the core of my addiction, you'll find isolation, you'll find selfishness and self centeredness, things like that. So that takes me away from this kind of birthright purpose and this, connection and fellowship with other human beings. There's a lot of [00:06:00] loss that happens, that occurs for an individual spiritually and emotionally when they dive deep into their addiction.

and there's a lot of disbelief and, one day you, realize that this isn't working. The literature, from 12-Step fellowships will tell you when the pain of remaining the same becomes greater than your fear of change, you will surely let go. And that's something that I've held on to all these years.

So fast forward, life was a wreck. I couldn't be honest. Didn't have healthy relationships. Wasn't happy. Realized that I was powerless, that, I had no ability to stop using, and then entered into a long term treatment facility called first at Blue Ridge, which is in Ridgecrest, only about a half hour away from us here in North Carolina.

And that was a 12 month program where I got a sponsor. I went to 12-Step fellowship meetings. I went to church services, [00:07:00] had a job assignment, and just, it added everything, all the pieces of the puzzle that, that I could, any spiritual guidance, anything like that. We, practice, a native American tradition from the Lakota nation of, sweat lodge, purification ceremonies.

And I just started to find this connection with other people, with myself and all things. That really revealed a lot of purpose and direction for my life. So I just went there to, in hopes to stop using and before long figured that, I had experience that qualified me in this field and started to show up and just do the work.

So worked in house management, case management, medication administration, administrative work, got a really good opportunity first at Blue Ridge and stayed there for 14 years, and then this opportunity became available

to steer the ship and I jumped on it. So that's [00:08:00] how I'm here.

Chris Langley: Wow. congratulations to you as well. That's incredibly inspiring, and the fact that you're in the position you're at now, as I said to Matt, speaks, volumes for the hard work that you've put into your recovery and the fact that you can now pass that on to your clients is incredibly rewarding.

So big congratulations to you on that. So tell us about some of the services that you both offer at your community. What, goes on at your, at

your services?

Matt Hare: So at the, Flynn Recovery Community, we, usually have about eight clients. That's how much are that the facility can hold. And, we're real big on service work for the community. It could be as little as, like one time this, the lady lost her husband. We went over and did yard work for. I'm working with, a lady, on the overdose response team with, getting ready to start [00:09:00] building ramps for, wheelchair accessible, people.

There's just anything that we can do for the community. We'll, do events. We'll do a charity. We'll go down to, the mission and help them guys out. If they need help unloading the warehouse, we'll go do that. There's a lot of people in the program that we practice that will come and they're older folks and they need, like a tree fell over, we went over there and cut their wood down.

If somebody's having an event, we'll, show up and volunteer our time. It's very important to me to show my guys the importance of service work. Because it helps the community, but, it's a blessing for us. Recently we had a close friend of ours pass away, and her, their kids was just, distraught obviously.

So we stepped [00:10:00] in. We did all the heavy lifting and moving her mother's house out. We took it to the place and donated it for her. We got her mother a plaque and did a plaque ceremony for. It's just little things like that. And that's it. That's it. In my opinion, that's the things that speaks volume for your recovery.

It's the little things. It's, if somebody in the house is sick, I encourage other guys to help them out on their chores, but we're always available for service in the community. And, we're well known in the community. People know that they can stop by the Flynn house.

And they can say, "Hey, I'm having this kind of issues. Can you help out?" and I'm always, "absolutely just give me a time and we'll work it out" because it speaks volumes for the community and for our recovery. So it's a win-win for everybody.

Chris Langley: Definitely. Definitely. So what addictions do [00:11:00] you help treat and how do your programs help someone remain substance free?

Drew Amburn: A tree top view of that would be, we have. different sectors, different things that we do. And you could look at that as, we have Flynn Recovery Community, which is a residential treatment facility. So

that's actual boots on the ground, residential people coming, doing the hard work of the personal clearing work, the growing, the learning and fellowship.

And that's what Matt speaks to service work on. The best thing that an addict or an alcoholic can do when they're struggling is get in the presence of another addict or alcoholic and to be of service, right? This, could be one of the

highest aspirations of the human heart. You could say is to help others.

And so when you do that, you leave yourself and all the drama and minutia that happens there. You're not at the center of the universe and you're able to become a [00:12:00] part of something bigger. So there's principles there. And Matt teaches those to the guys at the Flynn home. They have a clinical curriculum.

So there's the residential treatment part. And then we have a rockstar for a Clinical Director. She has a long list of credentials is able to provide, individual and group therapy, counseling sessions for adolescents and adults, marriage counseling, supervision, you name it. Like she it's impressive her scope,

of service that she can provide.

So we capitalize on that Burke Recovery. has been here for 58 years in our community. Yeah, it's when Matt said "they're well known", they're well known. They've been here, a go to stakeholder in the community for people that need clinical therapy or addiction services, things of that nature. So there's the clinical aspect that we provide for the community.

There's the residential treatment [00:13:00] aspect that we provide for the community. We also have adolescent prevention specialists that enter into our school system. all of the middle schools and all the high schools in our county. And we have prevention specialists that are on property there that take referrals from the administrative staff for students that may violate a tobacco or a vape or a substance use or alcohol policy.

And we start that process of education and introduction and information into recovery and healing. So with that, I'm super proud of that. And all this is, it's not contradictory to me, but it's somewhat new to me. I am a program builder at heart. Like I've once, my vision is to have a long term treatment facility, with a detox attached to it for our, for our region, for our area.

Because, you would have to literally go to Hickory 30 miles away, or Asheville 35 -40 miles [00:14:00] away, in order to receive those services. We're identifying gaps that are here in the community through that work that we're doing. Harm reduction, prevention. Treatment counseling. we're about all of that.

Chris Langley: Wow. That sounds incredible. That sounds incredible. And the fact you've been established for such a long time, speaks absolute volume. So tell us about the other team members that you have at Burke Recovery. Who else is involved?

Drew Amburn: So we've got, Bernice is our Finance Director and she is a rockstar too. She's wonderful. She doesn't let

anything get past her, and she knows where everything is. She's a wealth of knowledge that we, you know, we, have that. Jane is our Clinical Director. And again, I've explained about, her laundry list of credentials.

She does fantastic work. Matt at the Flynn home, myself, we have a lady named Tracy that is a [00:15:00] Program Coordinator for our Drug Free Communities grant that we work with. And that is

a coalition of stakeholders that engages the community, and we create needs assessments. We find out where the heart of the community is.

We're trying to raise awareness so that we can move from acknowledging a problem, and get past denying that it's there and then move into being aware of it and then actually cultivate that into action, within the community so we can help heal. So Tracy takes care of our Drug Free Communities grant. We have a youth specialist.

his name is Dorian Kirschner and

he's, he goes into our schools and teaches a curriculum. A, program, life skills and different modules, for students. And a lot of times we go off the cuff and just have real genuine kind of heartfelt conversations with the people that we serve.

The kind [00:16:00] that allows us to connect. Then we have Matika Robinson. She's our longest tenured employer. She's been here for 26 years and she's an adolescent prevention specialist. So she's worked with thousands of youth in our community through the school system over the years, helping them grow and helping them learn where to get help if they need it and things of that nature.

Renee Chapman is a Prevention Specialist. She does that same work. So then we have, Brenda,

who's an Office Manager who does a lot of scheduling appointments. She works with the clinical staff, and she manages some federal probation grants and a Juvenile Crime Prevention Council, Department of Juvenile Justice.

There's all these acronyms in the world of recovery, but

when you get here, you start to realize this is, a pretty deep, area. So those things, and then we have Kelly who does some work first program, which is Food Nutrition Safety. That's getting people hooked up with resources, CPS, Child Protective Services, you name it.

We just really want to be inclusive.

Chris Langley: You, yeah, you're offering everything. It is quite remarkable hearing this because, I didn't realise it was such a big organisation. to have so many staff, very dedicated staff members on your team, that's, very impressive.

So that's wonderful to hear. So you said that you help young people who are accessing the adolescent prevention services. Can you tell us a little bit more about this?

Drew Amburn: Yeah. So

This again, this is a program that we created through, Burke County schools. So we have the backing of our Director of Student and Family Services. And those adolescent services that we provide, are in the form of groups and counseling. What happens is, if a student starts to display, disruptive, [00:18:00] destructive, or addictive behaviors, if they get caught on property on premises violating one of those, of one of those policies, they're referred to us, and then, oftentimes we will make an appointment with our Clinical Director and we'll do what's called a Comprehensive Clinical Assessment.

It's just an initial assessment about where this person is. it's, rooted in best practices. It can identify, treatment goals and treatment plans that are needed or necessary. So then we'll, run, those youth through, an educational program that we created called S. C. I. P. It's a school intervention program.

And it's a recognized program, with the federal folks called, Project Towards No Drugs. And it's informational and educational. It's probably the first place to start. It's just sparking conversations, having conversations with a group of kids about their behavior, about what they're seeing, what they're feeling, and trying to get them to think in a different area.

If that doesn't, that's a 12 hour curriculum. that takes place over six weeks, two hours per week. and so that's a good, program. And then if we need more intensive care, we'll move into a 40 hour curriculum that is a little bit more comprehensive, and then, we would update treatment plans, set treatment goals, make recommendations.

A lot of this is because some of these youth are justice involved. So when I mentioned the Department of

Juvenile Justice and, the Juvenile Crime Prevention Council, they will make referrals to us and say, these kids are really, acting out. We don't want them to become part of the system, or just another number.

We don't, necessarily want punitive or incarceration or, those methods. We would rather, enter into the area of treatment. And that's where North Carolina is,

as a state does some pretty good work, compared to others. Not that it's [00:20:00] a competition, but we're leading the way in a lot of ideas.

It's, not been that long that recovery was viewed as a taboo or has a stigma attached to it. It still does. But now we've acknowledged that mental health and mental wellnesses, it goes hand in hand and diagnoses are there and there's medication assisted treatment and there's just an evolution of the way that things are going so, that we can provide better services to the people.

And the youth are where we start.

The youth are where we start. That premise is as plain and up front as it could be. They're our future. We want to provide them the resources and the support that they deserve.

Chris Langley: Most definitely. Most definitely. What is the Burke Substance Abuse

Network?

Drew Amburn: the Burke Substance Abuse Network is attached to the Drug Free Communities Grant. The Drug Free Communities Grant we have for a period of 10 years. We're currently in our 6th year of that brand. And the idea

is create a coalition of community stakeholders. So these coalition members actually sign off and they say we'll become part of the Burke Substance Abuse Network and we'll do this work for the community.

There's 12 sectors. We include, educational sectors from, youth, from the school system, from, the business sector in our county, from the religious sector, the churches, the spiritual aspect. There's just a representation of community stakeholders. For that have a say and what we do is we identify needs in our community and through the grant, there are reporting measures that we have to adhere to.

So we are creating community needs assessments, logic models, strategy plans, we're finding out what works and what doesn't. And then, collectively we're listening to the community and exacting more or executing their ideas that they come up with. So we provide the funding. Burke Recovery provides the funding.

We created the Burke Substance Abuse Network, and we gave funding to it. And we have a monthly meeting that we throw on the last Friday of every month where we have a swanky little venue at the Community House here in Morganton. We provide a breakfast. It's from 8 to 10am. We provide breakfast, coffee, orange juice, refreshments, all that.

And we have speakers or presentations or just meetings about what we're seeing, updates about the work we're doing and what we can do to continue that work. So it's a very community facing, public facing. engagement that, that really allows a community to get active.

Chris Langley: So this is something you've been building just for the last six years, really. And you've already achieved this level of community

Drew Amburn: Substance Abuse Network has actually been around since 2011, but we, it was a perfect fit. So yes, we attached it to the hip of the Drug Free Communities grant and it's been a perfect segway. And yes, in six years we've become successful, but the goal is to get it to stand on its own two legs after the life of the grant.

Oftentimes, Chris, you'll see grants expire and the work stops, and that's by design in a lot of ways, but In theory, it would be meant for us to do the hard work of bringing the community together to carry that work forward, provide the funding for it, figure it out, find out who's going to do it so that mission can, continue to walk on.

Chris Langley: That's huge. I'm so impressed hearing, hearing this. And the fact that you've got so many community members and organisations involved with what your goal is, it's just, it speaks volumes, it really, does. And I'm just going to move on to a little bit about what's going on in the United States, because obviously, there's major issues with fentanyl and other opioids, and sadly, worldwide now it seems to be spreading. How is North Carolina coping with this epidemic?

Drew Amburn: You got any input on that?

Matt Hare: I think it's hard, for anybody to cope with this epidemic because it's just, it's, always evolving, and it's just, it's. It's an epidemic and it's, it's a poison, and

overdose is, is, I don't know the exact definition, but overdose is too much of something which makes you overdose.

With, fentanyl, you can do a grain and die, so my personal opinion is,

it's not really an overdose of fentanyl, it's a poisoning of fentanyl, and it's, and it came

out of nowhere, and I think everybody's just trying to, harm reduction and education. I think for North Carolina, it's really come to light that we need to address the issue, the elephant in the room.

And, and I think, we're just, trying to, to figure it out as best we can. I know for myself, I was addicted to fentanyl, for about 10 years. And, and, I've overdosed eight times. And, and, like I know now, like Burke County

has an overdose response team.

So what that means is whenever they have an overdose call, they

have peer supports that go with them to the overdose call and they're all trained. Then they can talk to the patient right there on scene and get them help, get them on a medication treatment, get them into a rehab or just get them a number to call, if they need.

I know now that they got that national number, Never Use Alone. You can call a number if you're alone and you're going to use, and you can talk to them while you're using, and if you become unresponsive, then they call the authorities. So they, they got that. I recently just, learned about that a couple of days ago, which is great because as a person being in recovery, people that are still in the grips of addiction, they're not bad people.

Nobody in third grade, when the teacher asked you what you want to be when you grow up, nobody said, I want to be strung out on fentanyl, or strung out on drugs, or an alcoholic, So it's, I think a lot of times that, that stigma gets attached to them, and we're like, oh, they're addicted, they should let them go.

But, they're good people, and, The Overdose Response Team and the NARCAN, all that being available, I think is very important because you never know when you go to an overdose call, you could be saving the next president of the United States. You never know what that person is going to do with their life, and me and Drew are living proof of that.

Four or five years ago, I was digging out of dumpsters, and now I'm helping people. But if people wouldn't have been patient with me and saved my life when I need them to eight different times. I wouldn't be here talking to you.

So, I think the national line, and then the overdose response team and just seeing what works and what doesn't work, and then trying to remove the stigma.

Drew Amburn: You ready for my answer? Chris,

Chris Langley: Oh yeah. That's hear

Drew Amburn: I'm not going to pull any punches or hide. I do try to be respectful and, the political environment and climate that we're in is a huge part. But you asked nationally or even with on a state level, how's North Carolina doing? We're not doing enough. And despite our best efforts nationally, the problem is growing.

And this is something that we cannot

continue to allow to happen or pretend that our best efforts are making an effect that they're actually not. So what I would say, recovery was an option for me. People went to bat for me. They showed me a better way and a different way to live. It was interactive and that's hands on.

That's what longterm treatment is. That's what we need. We need to heal, are currently sick and suffering. And what I see nationally is there are options and not everybody understands this. We have an option to turn our back on the ones that are sick and suffering. That's a generational type thing.

Maybe through time that would change just like the popularity of different drugs and the way they come back and go away and things like. That that's, it's all existential. It's really a treetop view for this is that we have currently sick and suffering that need treatment, then harm reduction and prevention.

This is wonderful, but you are not going to buy a trillion doses of Narcan and solve this problem. It's just not going to happen. Safe needle exchanges,

Narcan vending machines. They're wonderful, creative ideas, but at the core

we need that community, we need that fellowship, we need the dollars that the federal government will give so that can go to the state level so that then it could go to the county level

and actually reach the communities that need it in the programs, that, that can be suggested.

That's why these community stakeholders are important because even here in our county, Chris, you can drive five miles down the road and there is a specifically different set of needs for that population

than there is even here where we're at. So access to services, right? People like Matt's talking about. Peer supports are, it's a buzzword, and there's a lot of momentum behind it. If you say trauma informed care, if you say peer support, if you say harm reduction or prevention, That's pretty popular stuff these days, and they're wonderful therapies and wonderful remedies, but they're, not enough on its own.

What we need to do is look at this epidemic, look at this problem as an ecosystem. I, suggest we build recovery ecosystems that take into account the person, the, person first, and start to

heal all of the issues that come with that. And those are a lot of times you'll find that there's generational trauma that's passed on.

Addicts and alcoholics don't choose to be addicts and alcoholics. A lot of times you'll, hear people say, I didn't have a choice. And what  we mean is that you stop making your own choices when your addiction takes over and you do whatever you have to do to get to the next level. That's, a, speaking freely, consequences are a powerful thing.

Our judicial system is a wonderful representation of that. When you lose freedoms, you lose your ability to make your own decisions. addiction does that as well. But, I don't believe that we

know enough about it. I think that doctors, could, do better. I don't want to Pass the blame to them.

But, board certified doctor in this country spends approximately 10 percent of their curriculum in the study of pain management. That's unacceptable. I know more about it than they did, and I feel confident saying that.

Stop giving people with back injuries and broken ankles and whatnot opioid highly addictive medications.

They don't know what they're doing.

Stop lowering the threshold for and Suboxone and subligate saying, "I think it can treat alcoholism, and I think it can [00:32:00] treat pain management." Of course it can, because there's an euphoric effect to it, but you don't know what you're

doing. Healing is a different thing.

Is that, am I making any sense or is it just too opinionated? 

Chris Langley: hundred No, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. I, per, person centered

Drew Amburn: If the individual, we have to acknowledge the person. There's beauty in that, right?

And, a lot of the programs that we

create, pay it forward. When someone would come to long term treatment, I would want to address their physical needs. So I would create relationships with our community doctors.

A lot of addicts will have dental issues, and I'm not talking about comprehensive care, but maybe the ability to, pull or yank a dead tooth out of your head that's causing you massive pain and not allowing you to focus on today and in the moment, right? First things first. In our

area, you'll find hypertension, high blood pressure, diabetes, heart disease, all of these things from the culture, from the diet that we maybe we start to address some of those issues.

Do you have a G.E.D.? Oh, you don't. Let's go ahead and take some of this federally funded dollars and create these programs so that we can get you, in better health, better wellness. A primary care physician gets your education rolling, show you that there's people that care and can do things for you, which could allow you to step up to the plate and focus on the hard work and recovery.

So that's, what I'm about.

Matt Hare: And that's what I love about Flynn

Recovery Community, because like when the guys get there, a lot of times they got nothing, but the clothes on their back, and, they don't have to provide nothing. Like it's, not a work program. They spend all their time building their foundation of recovery, so when they come in, their hygiene is provided. Okay. Their bedding is provided. We provide clothes. We provide food. We get them into the doctor. We get them into the dentist because if you look good, you feel good. And we make sure that they're on a good diet. We make sure that we go hiking and walking because it's also important to have fun in recovery also.

But, the thing, in my opinion, that makes Flynn Recovery Community different than from a lot of these other, recovery homes is you don't have to work while you're there. You work on yourself, you work on your relationship with your higher power, you work on your relationship with, with whatever it is.

Because, we like when people come in, everybody's got different issues. We all have the same solution, but we've got different issues. So we gotta look at them at the core and they spend all their time working on themselves, getting themselves better, getting the fog lifted. And it's just great to see somebody come in, there's one gentleman there now that came in with nothing but the close on his back.

And now he's got so much stuff. He's giving stuff away.

Drew Amburn: So he's, he doesn't even have an I. D. when he gets here. So legally in this country, he's not, I know this individual can't even get a job. He can't even prove his identification. Like we're oftentimes starting from ground zero. Nothing. And so then the question is, do you have a, the, the best option would be a passport.

If you don't have a passport, do you have a birth certificate? Do you have a social security card? Do you have a prison ID? Do you have an identification card? And if you don't, we have to track those things down. So case management becomes part of the person centered idea and the familial aspect you need to heal relationships.

But in time, a lot of times your loved ones have to let you go in order to save their own life because you represent such chaos for them. So a little bit of separation is important sometimes. But does that just stay on the back burner while you focus on yourself? There is a lot of stuff going on.

Individuals need guidance and support and help. So Matt's become, an expert Case Manager and, a therapist, a counselor, an educator. Matt, you name

Matt Hare: it. It's just very well rounded approach.

It's very unique and very good. And it, it, really works.

Chris Langley: Oh, I can tell just hearing from the passion that you guys speak about. It comes from a really good solid place. It really does. And I can't commend you guys enough. On the last couple of questions here. Have you a message to anyone who's listening to this podcast who's going through addiction?

Matt Hare: Yeah, Somebody that's going through addiction, I get it. I was there. I didn't, like I shared before, I didn't see no way out and but I'll leave to the face. So I would say to somebody that's struggling addiction is just keep trying. The only time we fail is when we stop trying.

There's nothing wrong with falling down as long as you get back up and a lot of times or every time the people that fall and get back up are stronger. than the people that never fall at all. And remember, the farther you get

away from your family, the closer to your family you're going to actually get.

It's always a small time sacrifice for a long time gain. And I challenge anybody listening, just try it because I was very optimistic. I was very judgmental, and I didn't believe it would work. And I told myself when I was in the camper, I said, I'll go try it. And if it don't work, I'll go back to the camp.

And I tell my guys when they come in, just try it with all your mind. And if you don't like it, I will buy you a bus ticket back home. And I haven't had nobody ask me for a bus ticket back home. And it's one of the things where you can't explain the miracles that you're going to receive. You have to experience it because it's so unbelievable, but, you have to make the first step.

And that's the hardest step is you got to ask for help. 

And then you got to listen to suggestions. When somebody tells you to do something, don't not do it. And always remember if you're not uncomfortable, you're not growing. And if you're not growing, you're going,

Chris Langley: Yeah.

Matt Hare: So it's worth it. Take it from somebody that was a 20 year, needle junkie that didn't want to stop, and now that I've tasted this life of recovery, it's so amazing, but you got to make the first step and that's the hardest.

You got to ask for help and you got to be willing to do whatever it

takes. But just never give up and keep trying.

Drew Amburn: My, my message is a message of hope. It's that we, do recover. It's that we, do heal. Healing is possible. Healing can take place the very second you enter into the practice of spiritual principles.

So when we leave the isolation and the self centeredness and the selfishness of addiction, and we enter into the mainstream current of connection and fellowship. Something wonderful is starting to happen, and Matt touched on it. We don't, I don't feel the need to explain away the magic. You can't and it's something that

you do have to show up for. But, the message is one of hope. I would say that through hard work, through your best ability, which is your availability, that means it's your ability to show up. I would say that levels the playing field that makes all of us equal. Addiction doesn't discriminate. I've had master mechanics.

I've had lawyers. We've had brain surgeons. We've had you name it. It doesn't discriminate.

So your ability to show up. Listen with the intention of learning, right? Listen, share

when, you become ready, when, it's on your heart. Start to give of yourself. These are things that all of us can do and others can show you how to do it.

Others can help you with that process. You're not alone. You don't have to do it alone. You can turn your pain into something that doesn't cripple you. I'm not going to tell you that it goes away for the newcomer. But it can turn into something that you can use for motivation. This can provide, direction and purpose for your life.

And when you find that connection, you become changed. Spiritual awakening is what I'm speaking about. A newness into your

life. A purpose to live with. And so if that sounds appealing to anybody that's struggling, reach out to us. We'd love to at least just have a conversation. We don't want anything in return.

I'd love to share my experience, strength, and hope. I'd love to tell you that it does work. That you're not alone. That you can do this. That it's not about good, bad, or wrong. You might be able to point to

something early in recovery and say, that's good, bad, right, or wrong. So what? Do you want to be right or do you want to heal?

The concepts of good, bad, right, and

wrong don't work. They don't connect early in [00:41:00] recovery because you have a lot of change occurring. You have a lot happening. So we stop with that. We practice spiritual principles. We accept what we find ourself as where we're at, that acceptance turns into surrender, which can open the door for a power greater than yourself.

And those are the core measures, that's the basic tools that you'll need to navigate the rest of your recovery. Then you'll learn about yourself and how you behave. And it hurts me, and it hurts my heart that a lot of addicts and alcoholics don't believe that they can be forgiven. They don't believe that it's for them.

So we stay stuck by these, by this judgment of ourself, by this negative talk.

If you're, struggling today, I would ask you to give yourself permission to heal. Just tell yourself that

I'm going to give myself permission to try something." There's power in that.

Matt Hare: Yeah. And,

one last thing for everybody watching.

Remember recovery doesn't happen for people that want it. Recovery doesn't happen for people that need it. Recovery only happens for people who do it. So when you do it and you always got to stick with the winners because you are who you already hang out with. So just remember that.

Chris Langley: Those are two very beautiful messages there, guys. Thank you so much. My last question. Tell our listeners how to best contact you and find your service online.

Drew Amburn: So BurkeRecovery.com is our website. It is currently being overhauled. and we have a fancy new shiny one coming that has more accurate, more current information. So that's going to be a powerful tool with it. It's been built and designed to take into account, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, all of those forms of social media.

So we'll have updates on there. We'll have a clear and concise explanation of the services that we provide. You can reach us at, phone number 828 433 1221. That's 828 433 1221. We're located at 203 White Street in Morganson, North Carolina, 28655. BurkRecovery. com. My name is Drew. Chris, I gave you my contact information.

You can get out. Find us. 

at the top of the search engine, when, you, do BurkRecovery. Yeah. and if you need inpatient, you can, when you call BurkRecovery, you can tell them that you need inpatient. Or you can call the office, 828-437-9491 or 828-437-9491.

Even if you don't want to come here to Morganson, maybe we have connections. Maybe I can get you situated in the Asheville area. Maybe I can get you situated in the Durham area. The Hope Haven, the Trosa in Durham, Hope Haven in Charlotte, folks down east at the coast. It just asks if we can help you get to your next place where you're going, we're willing to do that too.

Chris Langley: Wow. I couldn't think of a better way of ending today's podcast, guys. Matt and Drew, it's been a genuine honour to speak to you and to find out the amazing work that you're all doing down there. The whole team, the community. I'm very excited to hear about this and big congratulations to you both for what you've achieved and what you're going to achieve as well, because I know you're, going to just keep going and it's going to get bigger and bigger. So big congratulations to you all.

Matt Hare: Yeah. Thank you, Chris.

Drew Amburn: You're welcome. Thank you for what you do. And if you're ever here in town or ever buy, feel free to contact us. We'd love to show you what we do. Yeah. I'll show you some people that are growing currently. It's a success stories. So we have those.

Chris Langley: Oh big time I can hear that. I can hear that. thank you very much for the invite both of you and Much appreciated.

Matt Hare & Drew Amburn: Thanks Chris.

Chris Langley: very much

Do, do, do, do, do.