Ep15 Addiction Treatment: Addiction is a family disease

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

Chris Langley: Hi, welcome to the Addiction Recovery Place Podcast, the podcast championing addiction treatment professionals around the world. Howard Schier is the foFnder, Owner and Operator of Cambridge Recovery Sober Living. He brings considerable experience to management and operations as a results driven finance professional.

Located in Northern New Jersey, Cambridge Recovery's men's only sober homes offer residents a place to regain their independence before continuing their sober living journey on the outside. Welcome to the Addiction Recovery Place Podcast, Howard. Thanks for joining us.

Howard Schier: Thank you, Chris, for having me. It's a pleasure.

Chris Langley: No, I really appreciate your time. I know you're incredibly busy. I really do appreciate you joining us today. We're just going to jump straight in. So tell us a little bit about yourself and your vital service in New Jersey,

Howard Schier: Sure. First I'll give you a little background of myself,

how I got into recovery. I got into recovery because, I am an addict. When I was in high school, I had an [00:01:00] injury and I broke my arm and the doctor prescribed opiates. At the time we're talking, the early 1980s. I didn't know what opiates were. My parents didn't know what opiates were. My mother made sure I took it every four hours as prescribed on the bottle. I thought it was healing my bones. I had no idea what it was, but after three months I was having trouble getting off of it and I continued using it for, for, a few years thereafter, and finding sobriety, at a young age, is what enabled me to, go to college, graduate school, wife, kids, career, travel, all that good stuff. And had I not, found sobriety, as young as I did, I would have missed out on a lot of life.

Chris Langley: How old, were you when that, experience happened?

Howard Schier: It started when I was 15.

and it lasted until I was about 19.

Chris Langley: Goodness me. So when you were 19, you were able to go on to college and have a normal [00:02:00] life.

Howard Schier: Exactly.

Chris Langley: That's wonderful. And what, did you study at university?

Howard Schier: F

or undergraduate, I did Accounting and for graduate, I went to NYU for Finance.

Chris Langley: Oh, wonderful.

Exhcellent stuff. So tell us about your service then. What's, what are you all about and what do you, provide your residents?

Howard Schier: we, take a holistic approach to recovery. Let me take a step back. Most of the majority of the people coming to our place are coming to us directly from rehab. That's a 30 day program. They come in and they'll test, negative,

for substances and from there we get into aftercare mode, which is the most critical, period in recovery. It's one thing to be sober in a locked facility. It's another thing to maintain sobriety when you're living your day to day life.

Chris Langley: Yes.

Howard Schier: it makes it, it's, it makes it much more of a challenge, but if you're [00:03:00] in a supportive environment. With other people going through the same thing, we also happen to have a full time caseworker to help people, with treatment assessment, figuring out what they need,

treatment planning, treatment referral. We help people get back to work or back to school if that's what they need,

because, everybody needs a reason to get out of bed in the morning. You need purpose.

Chris Langley: Yes.

Howard Schier: We want to make sure people, build a sober network of friends that they can, rely on for some support when they leave, get a sponsor, do home group, all that kind of stuff.

There isn't just one thing to success. We also encourage people to pursue things like fitness and nutrition, faith and meditation are all very complimentary to traditional treatment.

Chris Langley: So, the main differences between rehabilitation service and services and sober living is, rehabilitation services are a lot more, I'm saying a lot more, but they're very structured. You have a lot of support, but sober believing you move [00:04:00] along past the, past, the rehabilitation stage, and you regroup and rebuild your life from there.

So that's what your service is all about. Yeah.

Howard Schier: Correct. Yeah, the rehab, they're more clinical or medical,

they have detoxes and things like that. we don't do anything, clinical, but we do manage and quarterback their entire

recovery.

Chris Langley: yes.

Howard Schier: I wish it was, I could say to people when you come out of rehab, go to IOP and that's what you need to do to maintain your long term sobriety, but it's much more complicated than that.

Chris Langley: of course. Of course.

Howard Schier: That's what we help people with.

Chris Langley: So you did some really important work, obviously. So tell us about the team that you have at your service.

Howard Schier: Right now we have a full time caseworker, Abby.

She's been with us for a few years now.

She does a great job. She knows all the treatment providers in the area. So regardless of what insurance you have, she'll be able to quickly go through and figure out, who the best providers, are that are available. And who might, [00:05:00] be a good match for a person as well. So we're able to provide that. She also helps with family reunification, helping people sign up for social services that they may qualify for.

We want to make sure that, folks get whatever they're entitled to during this period of transition. We also, in a lot of cases, send people out for, psychological assessments.

In many cases, people

haven't been really assessed and have been lost in the system. And what I mean by that is, one time, someone may have come up with a, a, diagnosis of depression. And they prescribed an antidepressant, it may be more complicated things than that going on, but doctors going forward tend to accept that diagnosis as being, "oh, he's got depression" kind of thing.

But in a lot of cases, there are more things going on that could be better treated.

So we like to get, a full, psychological [00:06:00] assessment.

We use Dr. Bennett over at Hackettstown and, from there, it gives our caseworker direction on how to, plan the appropriate, course of treatment for aftercare.

Chris Langley: So how are people referred to you? Where do you get your referrals from?

Howard Schier: Primarily from rehabs.

Chris Langley: From rehab. So directly from

Howard Schier: Yes,

Chris Langley: They leave rehab and come straight to you?

Howard Schier: Exactly. Their discharge planners, caseworkers, counselors, recommend us and they call us up and, we usually like to get their treatment set up before they arrive.

So we'll get all their information so that they can start IOP and things like that immediately.

Chris Langley: Okay. What are some of the challenges that you're that you experience of providing your service? What are the day to day challenges of obviously, helping people with addictions, but challenges of providing your service directly, would you say?

Howard Schier: It's going to be challenging because I have, 10 indiviuals, and they're all in various stages of [00:07:00] recovery. they're not 100%.

So there's, always going to be, that element of people, not always being at their best. but I think that probably the largest challenge of the fact that, addiction is a family disease,

not an individual disease.

And if there's, a lot of, enabling going on, for instance, if someone has the option to just go home when they don't want to do this anymore, they're probably not going to succeed.

Addicts tend to choose the path of least resistance, and if they're given the path, the choice to go home and to continue using, they're likely to choose that.

And we're not going to get success with that.

So that's, probably, the biggest reason why when we fail.

Chris Langley: So family intervention can cause a lot of issues along the way for, for rehabilitation and sober living. I completely understand that. Do you, accept, residents [00:08:00] from all across America?

Howard Schier: Yes,

Chris Langley: Okay, excellent. so how are you funded as well? How's, the care funded?

Yep.

Howard Schier: It's self-pay. Their families, come up with the money, each month and, insurance does not cover sober living. Unfortunately, they don't consider it clinical, but, simply rent.

Chris Langley: Okay. Okay. I get it. I completely understand. Over the last five years, for instance, what changes or risks have you seen within drug use in your community in New Jersey? What are the things that really scare you the most

with what's going on?

Howard Schier: The new stuff, it comes out so fast, we can't even keep up for it. I don't have tests for most of the new things that are out there. There's just not available commercially. One of the big things that's going on in Philadelphia is trank, which is, mixing, xylene with fentanyl. It's a [00:09:00] deadly combination. If you happen to overdose, and you go to the hospital, Narcan may not work because Trank does not work with Narcan.

It's a very dangerous combination, and it actually rots people's skin. I

don't know if you've ever gone onto YouTube and seen the internet, but, it's quite disturbing.

I'm also concerned about Meth use in the area increasing.

I've seen that on the object

and synthetic drugs, all those things that, people can buy on the internet or even, in the local bodega or, gas station,

Kratom and all, all these other, things that people buy the fact that, pot is legal now in New Jersey isn't helpful because it's everywhere.

Chris Langley: What is legal? Sorry, I misheard that.

Howard Schier: marijuana?

Chris Langley: Okay.

Howard Schier: Yeah, since, being legal in New Jersey, it's, everywhere.

Chris Langley: Okay.

Howard Schier: So that, makes it I think more difficult for people.

Chris Langley: So have you seen, so when, New Jersey became a recreational [00:10:00] state, so you've seen the use just skyrocket. you, witnessed that? Would you say, or just obviously the availability is a lot more, but would you

become more problematic?

Howard Schier: I haven't seen a huge rush yet, but, I do see typically, someone who's, struggling with a marijuana addiction is someone who is mid thirties, living in their parents' basement playing video

games. And that's a case where there's a lot of enabling going on to because the parents allow this to happen all those years.

Chris Langley: I see.

Howard Schier: And those are probably, those are, the marijuana addictions. Typically, I would say those folks are usually taking something else, usually prescription, like an Adderall is what I say.

Chris Langley: So you're seeing dual use with marijuana and prescribed drugs as well.

you can get something extra, they'll, usually do that. And a lot of them prefer, Adderall,

Adderall, why Adderall?

Howard Schier: It's a stimulant. It [00:11:00] gives them a euphoric effect.

and, a lot of them are just, playing video games and stuff, and they feel like it would give them, better focus.

I'm not sure they feel better and they can perform better.

Chris Langley: Okay,

Howard Schier: but it's, a very harmful drug.

Very harmful.

Chris Langley: Absolutely. Would you say mixing alcohol with these prescribed drugs as well? That just ups the, ante, doesn't it, really, on, on, on risk as well.

Howard Schier: Absolutely.

Chris Langley: Yeah,

Howard Schier: I just heard a statistic about Russian men, their life expectancy is 59 years. They attributed that primarily to the fact that they are, the alcoholism rate in Russia is just so high. In Russia, a bottle of vodka is the same price as a bottle of Pepsi and, the, the, government, make sure that people have plenty to drink because people who are under the influence are less likely to give the government a hard time.

Chris Langley: I see. I see.

Howard Schier: But it's a big problem

Yeah.

59 years. I would only have a couple years left if I was in [00:12:00] Russia.

Chris Langley: That's quite a scary fact, isn't it? When

you

Howard Schier: Yeah,

Chris Langley: I just want to come back a little bit with what you said about the nitrosines and the when you said it's flesh eating. What? This is something that happened over in Eastern Europe when I was in the UK.

This is coming onto the scene a little bit more. And now

Howard Schier: That was different I think that was Krokodil.

I think that was me from like petrol I believe.

It was a real hardcore. This is a horse tranquilizer, and they're actually getting them either through veterinarians or from the sources that veterinarians get them from.

Chris Langley: So it's actually a medication. So similar to ketamine kind of thing with a horse tranquilizer

Howard Schier: but not

made for humans.

Chris Langley: No. I totally get that. Okay. Excellent. Thank you very much for explaining that to me. While doing these podcasts, I've heard quite a variety of descriptions of harm reduction and, obviously coming from the UK, we've got very different, not different, but, maybe, some [00:13:00] slightly different views on harm reduction. Can you tell us your opinion what harm reduction is and what it means?

Howard Schier: Harm reduction is allowing some level of use, but in a safer way. One example I would give is, Suboxone or, Methadone, or any of the, various, maintenance, drugs, which I support fully. People on Suboxone I find can, function at a very high level.

They're, functioning at a high enough level so when they go to IOP, they're, they can get something out of the behavioral therapies. They can go back to work, they can, rebuild relationships. I was actually against it in the beginning, but I've, seen it for a long time and the people who use it responsibly do fantastic, in terms of the, some of the other stuff, needle exchange programs and having, safe spaces for people to, use. I look at Portland and, what's gone on there with that [00:14:00] experiment based on that, some of the other cities that have tried it, I, think it doesn't work.

Chris Langley: Yeah, I see, Oregon's had a real backlash against what they were trying to achieve and certainly not worked. And, I've obviously seen some stuff online about it and I've got very mixed reactions around it. It should in practice work, but from what I've seen, it's a, very different story, sadly.

Yeah.

Howard Schier: The problem is that they don't have enough support. If, they were, If they had, more counselors at these sites, and they were, holding these people more accountable to do certain things that they want to continue the privilege of coming there and, try and move them along towards, finding sobriety.

If it's basically for the masses come in, do what you want to do in a safe environment. And, it's safer, in case something happens, but it's not really solving the problem.

Chris Langley: [00:15:00] You ever gone to see any of these at all in Oregon? Have you ever, gone to see any of these places at all yourself?

Howard Schier: No.

like, you said, I've seen it, seen a lot of these

stories on television and it's very disappointing because I, initially, when a lot of these places started doing it, I was optimistic, that it could work,

but, at the end of the day, when, you're an addict, you're going to take advantage of these situations if there are no, guardrails in place. That's just how we are in active addiction.

Chris Langley: Yes, most definitely. Most definitely. Last couple of questions. How long do your residents normally stay with you? What's the kind of average stay or isn't there one? It's just until they're

Howard Schier: There isn't one. I'd

say it's, probably, 4 to 12 months,

depending on someone's situation.

Sometimes, we, we, correlate someone's discharge, like, when they're starting the new college semester, some, sometimes people want to, hurry it up as much as possible because they [00:16:00] want to return to the wife and kids. But we usually on day one set goals. It's not really a matter of time. But you want to have certain pieces in place, before you leave to set you up for success.

As I mentioned before, you want to have all your treatment providers. You'll want to have finished your IOP. You'll want to have a sponsor doing step work. Sober network of friends back to school, back to work. All these things need to be in place. And I encourage a lot of people not to return home if they don't need to.

A lot of cases returning to their parents' house they tell you right in rehab, stay away from people, places, and things associated with past use.

Your home is, that place

and if it's possible, if you don't have, a wife and kids or something like that, if you're living with parents, I always try and encourage people and even set them up with potential roommates, to, live with afterwards in a much healthier environment.

And it's, it makes everything much, healthier for the entire family.

Chris Langley: The services you're describing are very inspiring, I [00:17:00] have to say, and I love this whole idea of very, wide range of, services that you provide. You do with everything to make sure that once they leave, everyone's got the tools in their toolbox to live a sober life. Most definitely. Most definitely.

I think

absolutely amazing.

Howard Schier: I named this place Oxford because prior to opening, the only thing that was allowed, the sober house that was allowed to operate in New Jersey were called Oxford houses. Oxford houses are these like self governed houses, governed by the residents. I've been, I've probably sponsored 50 people over the years and had plenty of, folks who were staying in Oxford houses. And what I found is, it just doesn't work. You have, people who are sick. Not really able to look out after other people. Typically, these places are in bad areas where there's easy access to drugs and alcohol. Nobody wants one of those places in their neighborhood, and the houses aren't maintained. [00:18:00] It's usually not a good situation. It's usually for people who have nowhere else to go to the Oxford houses and I actually made my place Cambridge. Because I so hated the Oxford model. As Cambridge and Oxford are rival universities,

so that was my way of showing discontent.

Chris Langley: I love it. That's really cool. I didn't know that. No, that's, that, definitely works. No, that, that's brilliant. So what are your, have you got any future plans at all for Cambridge Recovery Sober Living?

Howard Schier: I'm looking to open up a few more houses.

I'd like to open up a place in Asbury Park. I've been talking to town about doing an LGBTQ+ house. Also looking to open up another house more closer to the Morristown area.

Chris Langley: Big plans. So

Howard Schier: ya.

Chris Langley: coming to fruition soon? Or is it just in talks at the moment?

Howard Schier: It's in talks in the moment. I'm hoping Asbury Park in the fall.

Chris Langley: Oh, wow. So very, yeah, this will come around in [00:19:00] no time for you, I'm sure. Last question. Where can people find you and your work online?

Howard Schier: they could find me at, www.cambridgerecoveryestates.com They can call me at, 908 946 0005.

Chris Langley: Perfect. Thank you very much. Indeed. Last question. Is there anything else that you want to mention? I may not have asked you. Is there

message you'd like to say to anyone who's wanting to maybe go into sober living house or is just become sober

Howard Schier: I would, yeah, I would encourage everybody who's, going into treatment of any kind to consider sober living and to remember that, this is a lifelong disease. You, really need to, learn to live with it. People ask me how I've maintained my sobriety for close to 40 years and I say it's a few reasons.

I'm not, there's nothing special about me, but I practice self care. I've been seeing a therapist for close to 40 years. Not the same one. I've had a [00:20:00] couple pass away. I'm so old, but, I've been going to meetings. I try and, eat right and exercise and, do the things that I'm supposed to do.

And I think staying connected to the industry also keeps my disease front of mind. And, all those things combined, I really think are, the reason why I've been able to maintain it. And I tell people, once, once it's no longer front of your mind and you let your guard down, it will look for its opportunity to come back. I tell people, you should be a therapist the rest of your life. You should be going to meetings, maybe not as much in the beginning, but you should be, continuing on with that and, taking care of your yourself physically. And of course, if there's. One of the first things we do when someone comes in is, try and make sure that if there's any type of, mental health issue is properly addressed.

Otherwise, the propensity to self-medicaid is going to continue and these efforts are futile. We don't let anybody out of here until we got, that figured out by the best folks [00:21:00] because otherwise it's just going to be a revolving door.

Chris Langley: Absolutely. Howard, thank you very much for your time today. It's been an absolute pleasure speaking to you and hearing about the amazing service you provide the residents and, and your community and, I wish you all the very best for the, future and for your new endeavors and the new houses you're going to be opening and, maybe in six months time or a year, we can have you back on so you can tell us about, the other, premises that you're going to be, working from.

So that'd be great.

Howard Schier: Yeah, that would be great. Thank you for having me on. This was terrific. I think what you're doing is amazing. People need to, understand what this disease is about. I got to tell you, I get calls from, my website, a family's, with their hair on fire, have no idea what they need to do for their loved one.

And I tell them, you don't need a sober house right now. You need a rehab. It's the understanding is, that far and I have to say, I face a kind of a similar situation myself. When my daughter went into depression, a few years ago, I didn't really know what [00:22:00] to do immediately before I had opened up this place. So I understand, that kind of panic. And, people, because of that, sometimes make bad decisions. They, call the wrong number and things like that because there is a sense of urgency. But I do recommend getting a, true referral and not always going to the internet is, probably a good idea.

Those page searches aren't always necessarily that pop up on top aren't always the best places.

Chris Langley: Yes, most definitely. Most definitely. I'm sure they're going to remember you when they need to come on to a sober living house. That's for sure. But, as I said, Howard, thank you so much for your time. It's been a real pleasure. And, thanks very much indeed.

Howard Schier: Absolutely. Thanks Chris.